Discussion:
Silver Spoon in the mouth for good health
(too old to reply)
Bill Gill
2012-08-06 17:27:08 UTC
Permalink
I am in an internet discussion group and one of the members has
claimed that the phrase "Born with a silver spoon in his mouth"
came about because rich people used to put a silver spoon in a
babies mouth to protect him/her from plagues and other diseases.
I have searched the web, not extensively, but I couldn't find anything
relevant. I also checked Snopes and they don't have anything.

Does anybody have anything to debunk the claim? I figure that it
won't help, but at least I will be able to say I tried.

Bill
Charles Wm. Dimmick
2012-08-06 21:44:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Gill
I am in an internet discussion group and one of the members has
claimed that the phrase "Born with a silver spoon in his mouth"
came about because rich people used to put a silver spoon in a
babies mouth to protect him/her from plagues and other diseases.
I have searched the web, not extensively, but I couldn't find anything
relevant. I also checked Snopes and they don't have anything.
Does anybody have anything to debunk the claim? I figure that it
won't help, but at least I will be able to say I tried.
Not a direct debunk, but some history of the phrase at Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_spoon

As far as protective uses, I found the following:
<http://mezawari.wordpress.com/2011/04/17/the-meaning-behind-silver-spoon/>

" Silver spoons have been used in the past as a method of detecting
poison, particularly in the Korean Joseon Dynasty. During this dynasty,
kings had multiple wives and they all competed for their sons to inherit
the throne. The first-born son was often a target of the other queens
who would try and poison him so their own son would be first in line.
Silver is very reactive and when it comes into contact with sulfur
(present in arsenic sulfides found in arsenic poisons) it would tarnish.
Poison testers would use the spoons to detect if food contained
poisonous chemicals."

Charles
Don Freeman
2012-08-07 21:45:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Gill
I am in an internet discussion group and one of the members has
claimed that the phrase "Born with a silver spoon in his mouth"
came about because rich people used to put a silver spoon in a
babies mouth to protect him/her from plagues and other diseases.
I have searched the web, not extensively, but I couldn't find anything
relevant. I also checked Snopes and they don't have anything.
Does anybody have anything to debunk the claim? I figure that it
won't help, but at least I will be able to say I tried.
Bill
Here is a little info from
<http://abcnews.go.com/Health/ColdandFluNews/story?id=6104503&page=1#.UCGMQKPYHux>

(on page 2)

"'Born With a Silver Spoon in Your Mouth'

This is a tricky one. Silver is known to have antimicrobial properties
that can ward off bacteria and viruses. But whether the old adage "born
with a silver spoon in your mouth" is related to this scientific fact is
debatable.

In medieval tradition, wealthy godparents gave their grandchildren
silver spoons as gifts during at their christening ceremonies. Because
only the rich could afford such items, silver spoons became a symbol of
the affluent.

"The elite class already had silver," said Albert Jack, historian and
author of "Red Herrings and White Elephants: The Origins of the Phrases
We Use Everyday." Since the upper class of society had silver among
their troves of treasures, those born into that class were seen as "born
with a silver spoon in their mouths."

The phrase has appeared in several pieces of literature, including
Cervantes' "Don Quixote." It made its first appearance in American
language in the "Adams Family Correspondence," a collection of letters
exchanged between John and Abigail Adams.

The connection to colds and flu or just being sick in general is
unclear. Some definitions of the phrase state that because children fed
with silver spoons were observed to get sick less often as opposed to
the poor class, "born with a silver spoon in your mouth" has a medical
origin.

Phrase experts are skeptical of this assertion.

"This means 'born into a wealthy family,'" McFedries said. "So it
doesn't have anything to do with colds, flu or illness." "
--
__
(oO) www.cosmoslair.com
/||\ Cthulhu Saves!!! (In case he needs a midnight snack)
Tim McDaniel
2012-08-07 22:55:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Don Freeman
Here is a little info from
<http://abcnews.go.com/Health/ColdandFluNews/story?id=6104503&page=1#.UCGMQKPYHux>
...
Post by Don Freeman
"born with a silver spoon in their mouths."
The phrase has appeared in several pieces of literature, including
Cervantes' "Don Quixote."
I just did a search of
http://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/996/pg996.txt , a Project
Gutenberg translation. Nowhere does this translation mention silver
spoons. (The introduction says that Cervantes won first prize in a
contest, three silver spoons, but that's not part of the novel.)
"Spoon" appears only twice in the work, nowhere near "silver".
"Silver" appears many more places, but not near cutlery, at best
plates.
--
Tim McDaniel, ***@panix.com
Charles Wm. Dimmick
2012-08-08 11:47:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tim McDaniel
Post by Don Freeman
Here is a little info from
<http://abcnews.go.com/Health/ColdandFluNews/story?id=6104503&page=1#.UCGMQKPYHux>
...
Post by Don Freeman
"born with a silver spoon in their mouths."
The phrase has appeared in several pieces of literature, including
Cervantes' "Don Quixote."
I just did a search of
http://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/996/pg996.txt , a Project
Gutenberg translation. Nowhere does this translation mention silver
spoons. (The introduction says that Cervantes won first prize in a
contest, three silver spoons, but that's not part of the novel.)
"Spoon" appears only twice in the work, nowhere near "silver".
"Silver" appears many more places, but not near cutlery, at best
plates.
It does not show up in the original "Don Quixote". Rather, it shows up
in the first translation of "Don Quixote" into English, where it is
substituted for a Spanish idiom with similar connotations. If I were not
so lazy I'd go look it up.

charles
Tim McDaniel
2012-08-08 21:04:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Charles Wm. Dimmick
Post by Tim McDaniel
Post by Don Freeman
Here is a little info from
<http://abcnews.go.com/Health/ColdandFluNews/story?id=6104503&page=1#.UCGMQKPYHux>
...
Post by Don Freeman
"born with a silver spoon in their mouths."
The phrase has appeared in several pieces of literature, including
Cervantes' "Don Quixote."
I just did a search of
http://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/996/pg996.txt , a Project
Gutenberg translation. Nowhere does this translation mention silver
spoons. (The introduction says that Cervantes won first prize in a
contest, three silver spoons, but that's not part of the novel.)
"Spoon" appears only twice in the work, nowhere near "silver".
"Silver" appears many more places, but not near cutlery, at best
plates.
It does not show up in the original "Don Quixote". Rather, it shows up
in the first translation of "Don Quixote" into English, where it is
substituted for a Spanish idiom with similar connotations.
Then it's not in _Don Quixote_ (_El ingenioso hidalgo don Quijote de
la Mancha_) and it's not evidence of Spanish use of the idiom.
--
Tim McDaniel, ***@panix.com
Charles Wm. Dimmick
2012-08-09 11:59:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tim McDaniel
Post by Charles Wm. Dimmick
Post by Tim McDaniel
Post by Don Freeman
Here is a little info from
<http://abcnews.go.com/Health/ColdandFluNews/story?id=6104503&page=1#.UCGMQKPYHux>
...
Post by Don Freeman
"born with a silver spoon in their mouths."
The phrase has appeared in several pieces of literature, including
Cervantes' "Don Quixote."
I just did a search of
http://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/996/pg996.txt , a Project
Gutenberg translation. Nowhere does this translation mention silver
spoons. (The introduction says that Cervantes won first prize in a
contest, three silver spoons, but that's not part of the novel.)
"Spoon" appears only twice in the work, nowhere near "silver".
"Silver" appears many more places, but not near cutlery, at best
plates.
It does not show up in the original "Don Quixote". Rather, it shows up
in the first translation of "Don Quixote" into English, where it is
substituted for a Spanish idiom with similar connotations.
Then it's not in _Don Quixote_ (_El ingenioso hidalgo don Quijote de
la Mancha_) and it's not evidence of Spanish use of the idiom.
The usual "quote" is from Part II, Book IV, ch. 73
"Every man was not born with a silver spoon in his mouth."
in the English translation. The original I don't know.
The proverb is in Peter Motteux's translation of Cervantes' 'Don Quixote'

Charles

.
Donna Richoux
2012-08-14 01:45:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Charles Wm. Dimmick
Post by Tim McDaniel
Post by Tim McDaniel
Post by Don Freeman
Here is a little info from
<http://abcnews.go.com/Health/ColdandFluNews/story?id=6104503&page=1#.UC
GMQKPYHux>
Post by Charles Wm. Dimmick
Post by Tim McDaniel
Post by Tim McDaniel
...
Post by Don Freeman
"born with a silver spoon in their mouths."
The phrase has appeared in several pieces of literature, including
Cervantes' "Don Quixote."
I just did a search of
http://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/996/pg996.txt , a Project
Gutenberg translation. Nowhere does this translation mention silver
spoons.
[snip]
Post by Charles Wm. Dimmick
Post by Tim McDaniel
Then it's not in _Don Quixote_ (_El ingenioso hidalgo don Quijote de
la Mancha_) and it's not evidence of Spanish use of the idiom.
True, true. I don't believe anyone said it was originally a Spanish
proverb. It was used in a 1719 English translation as reasonably
parallel in meaning to a quite different Spanish saying.

Translators wrestle with that all the time -- do I stick to a literal
translation and lose all sense, or do I go for the general feeling and
lose literal accuracy? Both methods are translations.
Post by Charles Wm. Dimmick
The usual "quote" is from Part II, Book IV, ch. 73
"Every man was not born with a silver spoon in his mouth."
in the English translation. The original I don't know.
The proverb is in Peter Motteux's translation of Cervantes' 'Don Quixote'
These questions are answered quite fully in the Wikipedia article you
(Charles) suggested earlier.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_spoon

It gives the Spanish saying in Cervantes,

("muchas veces donde hay estacas no hay tocinos," literally: "often
where there are hooks [for hanging hams] there are no hams")

and it also gives the next known English citation, two years later, in a
Scottish collection of proverbs.

Anyway, forget any of this nonsense about microbes and so on. The
proverb simply refers to wealth.
--
Best -- Donna Richoux
Tim McDaniel
2012-08-14 14:22:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Don Freeman
<http://abcnews.go.com/Health/ColdandFluNews/story?id=6104503&page=1#.UCGMQKPYHux>
page 2
Post by Don Freeman
"born with a silver spoon in their mouths."
The phrase has appeared in several pieces of literature, including
Cervantes' "Don Quixote."
Then it's not in _Don Quixote_ (_El ingenioso hidalgo don Quijote de
la Mancha_) and it's not evidence of Spanish use of the idiom.
True, true. I don't believe anyone said it was originally a Spanish
proverb.
Either that's a shifting goalpost
- nobody said anything about the phrase having a Spanish origin.
or if you mean "I don't believe anyone said it appeared in a Spanish
work"
- someone did, supra.

The claim was that it was in _Don Quixote_, which was centuries
earlier than the only other citation in the article, "a collection of
letters exchanged between John and Abigail Adams". If it didn't
appear in _Don Quixote_ but in a much much later translation (as you
averred), the _translation_ is evidence and its date is significant,
and mentioning the original work is highly misleading.

Not that I ought to be arguing about the original abcnews article.
I've just looked at it, though pages 3 and 4 now 404 for me. The
explanations of other phrases is a pack of "just so" stories and
made-up-looking etymologies. If it had been about ocean travel, we
probably would have seen "P.O.S.H.".
--
Tim McDaniel, ***@panix.com
Donna Richoux
2012-08-14 15:34:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Don Freeman
<http://abcnews.go.com/Health/ColdandFluNews/story?id=6104503&page=1#.UCGM
QKPYHux> page 2
Post by Don Freeman
"born with a silver spoon in their mouths."
The phrase has appeared in several pieces of literature, including
Cervantes' "Don Quixote."
Then it's not in _Don Quixote_ (_El ingenioso hidalgo don Quijote de
la Mancha_) and it's not evidence of Spanish use of the idiom.
True, true. I don't believe anyone said it was originally a Spanish
proverb.
Either that's a shifting goalpost
- nobody said anything about the phrase having a Spanish origin.
Since we have no evidence the saying even existed in Spanish, I
certainly was not trying to pre-date Spanish to the Romans or Greeks or
someone. If *that* is what you mean by shifting goalposts.
Post by Don Freeman
or if you mean "I don't believe anyone said it appeared in a Spanish
work"
- someone did, supra.
The claim was that it was in _Don Quixote_, which was centuries
earlier than the only other citation in the article, "a collection of
letters exchanged between John and Abigail Adams".
Don Freeman quoted an article that erroneously said:

The phrase has appeared in several pieces of literature, including
Cervantes' "Don Quixote."

I agree that is slopping writing. The phrase appeared in an English
translation of Cervantes, not literally in Cervantes.

My main point was that the Wikipedia article which was referred to in an
even earlier post was reasonably clear about the sequence of events.
Wiki gave the corresponding Spanish proverb, which referred to ham and
hooks.
Post by Don Freeman
appear in _Don Quixote_ but in a much much later translation (as you
averred), the _translation_ is evidence and its date is significant,
and mentioning the original work is highly misleading.
Not that I ought to be arguing about the original abcnews article.
I've just looked at it, though pages 3 and 4 now 404 for me. The
explanations of other phrases is a pack of "just so" stories and
made-up-looking etymologies. If it had been about ocean travel, we
probably would have seen "P.O.S.H.".
Which makes the difference between a work and its translation to be
elegantly subtle in comparison.

I wouldn't blame you if you had skipped looking up the Wiki article due
to its poor reputation. I suppose it's another discussion, but I get the
impression that Wikipedia crossed some threshold a year or two ago
(maturity?) and is more reliable than before. Has anyone else noticed
this?
--
Best -- Donna Richoux
Tim McDaniel
2012-08-14 16:01:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Donna Richoux
I wouldn't blame you if you had skipped looking up the Wiki article due
to its poor reputation.
I simply hadn't noticed it, I didn't realize you were referring to it,
didn't have the URL, and in trn you can't go back to look at articles
while composing a reply.

Having gone back (before starting this reply, I see the URL is
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_spoon , and I see it's indeed clearer.
--
Tim McDaniel, ***@panix.com
Lee Rudolph
2012-08-14 16:56:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Donna Richoux
I wouldn't blame you if you had skipped looking up the Wiki article due
to its poor reputation. I suppose it's another discussion, but I get the
impression that Wikipedia crossed some threshold a year or two ago
(maturity?) and is more reliable than before. Has anyone else noticed
this?
I certainly haven't. It seems as spotty as ever,
with a large lurch towards "poor" on anything that
has one or more organizations with strong stands
on the issue.

Lee Rudolph
Duggy
2012-08-20 05:34:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Donna Richoux
I wouldn't blame you if you had skipped looking up the Wiki article due
to its poor reputation. I suppose it's another discussion, but I get the
impression that Wikipedia crossed some threshold a year or two ago
(maturity?) and is more reliable than before. Has anyone else noticed
this?
Wikipedia may have become more reliable in the last year or two, but not significantly so. Wikipedia has always been more reliable then legend would have it.

There are factors though:

- Major well editor articles are still a lot more reliable than minor ones.
- Wikipedia was being used by lazy people in the news media - this caused two problems, it made news when the news used it to give incorrect information & wikipedia uses the news as a reliable source meaning you would cite outside sources that got the information from wikipedia. I think this has reduced so isn't a problem.

The big thing is the perception and venue. Newsgroups and social media were places where using wikipedia as "proof" was mocked. However, as wikipedia is more reliable than most random posts on newsgroups or facebook the view of that turned around. And arguments at these places aren't important enough to need something more reliable (as opposed to the news media where it is). Wikipedia is also a been resource than most random websites which have no reliability of sources rules.

So I think it's more a perception thing rather than accuracy. Though, there are still people who cling to the myth (as is always the case).
Michael Kuettner
2012-08-22 03:13:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Duggy
Post by Donna Richoux
I wouldn't blame you if you had skipped looking up the Wiki article due
to its poor reputation. I suppose it's another discussion, but I get the
impression that Wikipedia crossed some threshold a year or two ago
(maturity?) and is more reliable than before. Has anyone else noticed
this?
Wikipedia may have become more reliable in the last year or two, but not
significantly
so. Wikipedia has always been more reliable >then legend would have it.
Nonsense.
Wiki has been reliable on commonly accepted things like the periodic
table of elements.
It wasn't and isn't reliable on controversial themes.
Post by Duggy
- Major well editor articles are still a lot more reliable than minor ones.
What are "major well editor articles" ?
Post by Duggy
- Wikipedia was being used by lazy people in the news media - this caused
two problems, it made news when the news used it to
give incorrect information & wikipedia uses the news as a reliable source
meaning
you would cite outside sources that got the information from wikipedia.
I think this has reduced so isn't a problem.
See above.
Post by Duggy
The big thing is the perception and venue. Newsgroups and social media
were
ARE
Post by Duggy
places where using wikipedia as "proof" was mocked.
Now, we go looking.
Open Wikipedia and type "Creationism".
You'll get an utterly worthless and politically opined article.
Fuck Wiki.
Post by Duggy
However, as wikipedia is more reliable than most random posts on
newsgroups or facebook
<snort>
Comparing newsgroups and facebook.
You're a true scholar.
NOT
Post by Duggy
the view of that turned around.
Yeah, for you. Not for those who still read books.
Post by Duggy
And arguments at these places aren't important enough to need something
more reliable
(as opposed to the news media where it is). Wikipedia is also a been
resource than most
random websites which have no reliability of sources rules.
I'll let this imbecility stand in its own beauty.
Post by Duggy
So I think it's more a perception thing rather than accuracy. Though,
there are still people
who cling to the myth (as is always the case).
After you coherent argument Wiki will be my main source from now on.

Cheers,

Michael " Oh. My. God. " Kuettner
Duggy
2012-08-24 04:28:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael Kuettner
Post by Duggy
Wikipedia may have become more reliable in the last year or two, but not
significantly
so. Wikipedia has always been more reliable >then legend would have it.
Nonsense.
Really?
Post by Michael Kuettner
Wiki has been reliable on commonly accepted things like the periodic
table of elements.
It wasn't and isn't reliable on controversial themes.
I find it gives both sides of the controversy. While, "Moon Landing Hoax" may not say "the idea that it was a conspiracy is bullshit" it gives both sides and lets the reader decide, rather than most of the pages on a google search which will only give one uncontested side.
Post by Michael Kuettner
What are "major well editor articles" ?
*ed
Post by Michael Kuettner
See above.
See what?
Post by Michael Kuettner
Post by Duggy
The big thing is the perception and venue. Newsgroups and social media
were
ARE
Post by Duggy
places where using wikipedia as "proof" was mocked.
Do they still exist?
Post by Michael Kuettner
Now, we go looking.
Open Wikipedia and type "Creationism".
"Creationism is the religious belief[1] that humanity, life, the Earth, and the universe are the creation of a supernatural being"

Sounds correct to me.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creationism#Criticism

Gives the other side.
Post by Michael Kuettner
You'll get an utterly worthless and politically opined article.
Nope.
Post by Michael Kuettner
Fuck Wiki.
Ah, so that's your level.
Post by Michael Kuettner
Post by Duggy
However, as wikipedia is more reliable than most random posts on
newsgroups or facebook
<snort>
Comparing newsgroups and facebook.
Yes. What should I be comparing it's use as a source on newsgroups and social media. I specifically said that news media *should not* use them.
Post by Michael Kuettner
You're a true scholar.
I have a BA in English Lit.
Post by Michael Kuettner
NOT
Hi Wayne, hows Garth?
Post by Michael Kuettner
Post by Duggy
the view of that turned around.
Yeah, for you. Not for those who still read books.
I have a BA in English Lit.
Post by Michael Kuettner
I'll let this imbecility stand in its own beauty.
An artist's portrait of himself.
Post by Michael Kuettner
Post by Duggy
who cling to the myth (as is always the case).
After you coherent argument Wiki will be my main source from now on.
Then you're an idiot who can't read.
Post by Michael Kuettner
Michael " Oh. My. God. " Kuettner
I am not your god.
Evan Kirshenbaum
2012-08-14 18:47:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Don Freeman
Post by Don Freeman
<http://abcnews.go.com/Health/ColdandFluNews/story?id=6104503&page=1#.UCGMQKPYHux>
page 2
Post by Don Freeman
"born with a silver spoon in their mouths."
The phrase has appeared in several pieces of literature, including
Cervantes' "Don Quixote."
Then it's not in _Don Quixote_ (_El ingenioso hidalgo don Quijote de
la Mancha_) and it's not evidence of Spanish use of the idiom.
True, true. I don't believe anyone said it was originally a Spanish
proverb.
Either that's a shifting goalpost
- nobody said anything about the phrase having a Spanish origin.
or if you mean "I don't believe anyone said it appeared in a Spanish
work"
- someone did, supra.
The claim was that it was in _Don Quixote_, which was centuries
earlier than the only other citation in the article, "a collection of
letters exchanged between John and Abigail Adams". If it didn't
appear in _Don Quixote_ but in a much much later translation (as you
averred),
The ca. 1700 Motteux translation was about halfway between the Spanish
_Quixote_ and that Adamses' letters. If he coined the phrase, then it
would be correct to say that it entered English in _Don Quixote_.
Whether it counts as "Cervantes' _Don Quixote_" (translated, of
course, since we're talking about English) is a matter of opinion.
Post by Don Freeman
the _translation_ is evidence and its date is significant, and
mentioning the original work is highly misleading.
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
Still with HP Labs |A burro is an ass. A burrow is a
SF Bay Area (1982-) |hole in the ground. As a
Chicago (1964-1982) |journalist, you are expected to
|know the difference.
***@gmail.com | UPI Stylebook

http://www.kirshenbaum.net/
Michael Kuettner
2012-08-15 03:56:19 UTC
Permalink
Hello, long time no see.

<brutal snip>
Post by Donna Richoux
("muchas veces donde hay estacas no hay tocinos," literally: "often
where there are hooks [for hanging hams] there are no hams")
Meaning : Those who would need a silver spoon haven't got one.
Just the opposite of "born with a silver spoon in the mouth".
Post by Donna Richoux
and it also gives the next known English citation, two years later, in a
Scottish collection of proverbs.
Anyway, forget any of this nonsense about microbes and so on. The
proverb simply refers to wealth.
Not the Spanish one. That refers to poverty.

Cheers,

Michael "I was born with a plastic spoon in my mouth" Kuettner
Evan Kirshenbaum
2012-08-14 19:35:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael Kuettner
Hello, long time no see.
<brutal snip>
Post by Donna Richoux
("muchas veces donde hay estacas no hay tocinos," literally: "often
where there are hooks [for hanging hams] there are no hams")
Meaning : Those who would need a silver spoon haven't got one.
Just the opposite of "born with a silver spoon in the mouth".
The translation was similarly negative:

"Mum, Teresa, quoth Sancho, 'tis not all Gold that glisters
[sic], and every Man was not born with a Silver Spoon in his
Mouth
Post by Michael Kuettner
Post by Donna Richoux
and it also gives the next known English citation, two years later,
in a Scottish collection of proverbs.
Anyway, forget any of this nonsense about microbes and so on. The
proverb simply refers to wealth.
Not the Spanish one. That refers to poverty.
Or at least lack of wealth.
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
Still with HP Labs |Pardon him. Theodotus: he is a
SF Bay Area (1982-) |barbarian, and thinks that the
Chicago (1964-1982) |customs of his tribe and island are
|the laws of nature.
***@gmail.com |
| Shaw, _Caesar & Cleopatra_
http://www.kirshenbaum.net/
Bill Gill
2012-08-08 13:02:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Don Freeman
Post by Bill Gill
I am in an internet discussion group and one of the members has
claimed that the phrase "Born with a silver spoon in his mouth"
came about because rich people used to put a silver spoon in a
babies mouth to protect him/her from plagues and other diseases.
I have searched the web, not extensively, but I couldn't find anything
relevant. I also checked Snopes and they don't have anything.
Does anybody have anything to debunk the claim? I figure that it
won't help, but at least I will be able to say I tried.
Bill
Here is a little info from
<http://abcnews.go.com/Health/ColdandFluNews/story?id=6104503&page=1#.UCGMQKPYHux>
(on page 2)
"'Born With a Silver Spoon in Your Mouth'
This is a tricky one. Silver is known to have antimicrobial properties
that can ward off bacteria and viruses. But whether the old adage "born
with a silver spoon in your mouth" is related to this scientific fact is
debatable.
In medieval tradition, wealthy godparents gave their grandchildren
silver spoons as gifts during at their christening ceremonies. Because
only the rich could afford such items, silver spoons became a symbol of
the affluent.
"The elite class already had silver," said Albert Jack, historian and
author of "Red Herrings and White Elephants: The Origins of the Phrases
We Use Everyday." Since the upper class of society had silver among
their troves of treasures, those born into that class were seen as "born
with a silver spoon in their mouths."
The phrase has appeared in several pieces of literature, including
Cervantes' "Don Quixote." It made its first appearance in American
language in the "Adams Family Correspondence," a collection of letters
exchanged between John and Abigail Adams.
The connection to colds and flu or just being sick in general is
unclear. Some definitions of the phrase state that because children fed
with silver spoons were observed to get sick less often as opposed to
the poor class, "born with a silver spoon in your mouth" has a medical
origin.
Phrase experts are skeptical of this assertion.
"This means 'born into a wealthy family,'" McFedries said. "So it
doesn't have anything to do with colds, flu or illness." "
Thanks, that is more than I have been able to find. Of course the
guy who is making the assertion isn't going to pay any attention.

Bill
Don Freeman
2012-08-11 03:01:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Gill
Post by Don Freeman
Post by Bill Gill
I am in an internet discussion group and one of the members has
claimed that the phrase "Born with a silver spoon in his mouth"
came about because rich people used to put a silver spoon in a
babies mouth to protect him/her from plagues and other diseases.
I have searched the web, not extensively, but I couldn't find anything
relevant. I also checked Snopes and they don't have anything.
Does anybody have anything to debunk the claim? I figure that it
won't help, but at least I will be able to say I tried.
Bill
Here is a little info from
<http://abcnews.go.com/Health/ColdandFluNews/story?id=6104503&page=1#.UCGMQKPYHux>
(on page 2)
"'Born With a Silver Spoon in Your Mouth'
This is a tricky one. Silver is known to have antimicrobial properties
that can ward off bacteria and viruses. But whether the old adage "born
with a silver spoon in your mouth" is related to this scientific fact is
debatable.
In medieval tradition, wealthy godparents gave their grandchildren
silver spoons as gifts during at their christening ceremonies. Because
only the rich could afford such items, silver spoons became a symbol of
the affluent.
"The elite class already had silver," said Albert Jack, historian and
author of "Red Herrings and White Elephants: The Origins of the Phrases
We Use Everyday." Since the upper class of society had silver among
their troves of treasures, those born into that class were seen as "born
with a silver spoon in their mouths."
The phrase has appeared in several pieces of literature, including
Cervantes' "Don Quixote." It made its first appearance in American
language in the "Adams Family Correspondence," a collection of letters
exchanged between John and Abigail Adams.
The connection to colds and flu or just being sick in general is
unclear. Some definitions of the phrase state that because children fed
with silver spoons were observed to get sick less often as opposed to
the poor class, "born with a silver spoon in your mouth" has a medical
origin.
Phrase experts are skeptical of this assertion.
"This means 'born into a wealthy family,'" McFedries said. "So it
doesn't have anything to do with colds, flu or illness." "
Thanks, that is more than I have been able to find. Of course the
guy who is making the assertion isn't going to pay any attention.
Bill
Yeah, that's the way it usually works. Welcome to the club.
--
__
(oO) www.cosmoslair.com
/||\ Cthulhu Saves!!! (In case he needs a midnight snack)
l***@gmail.com
2019-06-06 16:54:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Gill
I am in an internet discussion group and one of the members has
claimed that the phrase "Born with a silver spoon in his mouth"
came about because rich people used to put a silver spoon in a
babies mouth to protect him/her from plagues and other diseases.
I have searched the web, not extensively, but I couldn't find anything
relevant. I also checked Snopes and they don't have anything.
Does anybody have anything to debunk the claim? I figure that it
won't help, but at least I will be able to say I tried.
Bill
Actually silver helped cure some illnesses. Look under collodial silver
Mark Shaw
2019-06-06 20:46:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by l***@gmail.com
Post by Bill Gill
I am in an internet discussion group and one of the members has
claimed that the phrase "Born with a silver spoon in his mouth"
came about because rich people used to put a silver spoon in a
babies mouth to protect him/her from plagues and other diseases.
I have searched the web, not extensively, but I couldn't find anything
relevant. I also checked Snopes and they don't have anything.
Does anybody have anything to debunk the claim? I figure that it
won't help, but at least I will be able to say I tried.
Bill
Actually silver helped cure some illnesses. Look under collodial silver
You can find it filed under Medicine, Quack.
--
Mark Shaw moc TOD liamg TA wahsnm
========================================================================
"All of my mistakes are giving me ideas." - Natalie Lileks
David DeLaney
2019-06-07 01:50:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark Shaw
Post by l***@gmail.com
Post by Bill Gill
I am in an internet discussion group and one of the members has
claimed that the phrase "Born with a silver spoon in his mouth"
came about because rich people used to put a silver spoon in a
babies mouth to protect him/her from plagues and other diseases.
I have searched the web, not extensively, but I couldn't find anything
relevant. I also checked Snopes and they don't have anything.
Does anybody have anything to debunk the claim? I figure that it
won't help, but at least I will be able to say I tried.
Bill
Actually silver helped cure some illnesses. Look under collodial silver
You can find it filed under Medicine, Quack.
Correct; the only things "colloidal silver" will do for you are a) in quantity,
turn your skin a grayish-blue tint from having it build up there and/or b)
POSSIBLY activate your placebo effect, just like ANY other possible medical
treatment at all.

Silver has no known use in the body. Tiny particles of silver do have uses in
nanomedicine ... as carriers for actual active agents. Nothing more.

tl;dr: "colloidal silver" is a scam and a snake-oil, but at least it PROBABLY
won't actually harm you in any known way, which does put it head and shoulders
(no pun intended) above a lot of other quackery.

Dae, oh, and it'll be a big shock to any were-animal that gets exposed to your
tasty tasty boold
--
\/David DeLaney posting thru EarthLink - "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
my gatekeeper archives are no longer accessible :( / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
Mark Shaw
2019-06-07 12:41:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by David DeLaney
tl;dr: "colloidal silver" is a scam and a snake-oil, but at least it PROBABLY
won't actually harm you in any known way, which does put it head and shoulders
(no pun intended) above a lot of other quackery.
Other than the fact that when people use quack cures they're typically
not using them in conjunction with real medicine....
Post by David DeLaney
Dae, oh, and it'll be a big shock to any were-animal that gets exposed to your
tasty tasty boold
Yeah, there's that, too.
--
Mark Shaw moc TOD liamg TA wahsnm
========================================================================
"All of my mistakes are giving me ideas." - Natalie Lileks
Drew Lawson
2019-06-07 13:01:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark Shaw
Post by l***@gmail.com
Post by Bill Gill
I am in an internet discussion group and one of the members has
claimed that the phrase "Born with a silver spoon in his mouth"
came about because rich people used to put a silver spoon in a
babies mouth to protect him/her from plagues and other diseases.
I have searched the web, not extensively, but I couldn't find anything
relevant. I also checked Snopes and they don't have anything.
Does anybody have anything to debunk the claim? I figure that it
won't help, but at least I will be able to say I tried.
Bill
Actually silver helped cure some illnesses. Look under collodial silver
You can find it filed under Medicine, Quack.
Does it echo?


Drew "just put it on my bill" Lawson
--
Drew Lawson Some men's dreams
for others turn to nightmares.
I never would have thought this
in my wildest dreams.
Lee Ayrton
2019-06-08 19:49:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark Shaw
Post by l***@gmail.com
Post by Bill Gill
I am in an internet discussion group and one of the members has
claimed that the phrase "Born with a silver spoon in his mouth"
came about because rich people used to put a silver spoon in a
babies mouth to protect him/her from plagues and other diseases.
I have searched the web, not extensively, but I couldn't find anything
relevant. I also checked Snopes and they don't have anything.
Does anybody have anything to debunk the claim? I figure that it
won't help, but at least I will be able to say I tried.
Bill
Actually silver helped cure some illnesses. Look under collodial silver
You can find it filed under Medicine, Quack.
As a matter of fact, yes you can:

https://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/PhonyAds/silverad.html


<q> Rarely, excessive doses of colloidal silver can cause possibly
irreversible serious health problems, including kidney damage and
neurological problems such as seizures.

Colloidal silver products may also interact with medications, including
penicillamine (Cuprimine, Depen), quinolone antibiotics, tetracycline
and thyroxine (Unithroid, Levoxyl, Synthroid) medications.</q>

https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/consumer-health/expert-answers/colloidal-silver/faq-20058061


A small in vitro study showed no antimicrobial action:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15114827



Lee "Born with a plastic spoon in my mouth" Ayrton

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