Discussion:
Super Thermite was Re: Video of THERMITE REACTION at WTC on 9/11
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Your ISP Hosts Child Porn, Warez, Movies - Ask Me How
2006-03-14 13:16:46 UTC
Permalink
http://www.physics.byu.edu/research/energy/htm7.html
Dramatic footage reveals yellow-to-white hot molten metal dripping
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2991254740145858863
&q=cameraplanet+9%2F11. The yellow color implies a molten-metal
temperature of approximately 1000 oC, evidently above that which the
dark- smoke hydrocarbon fires in the Towers could produce. If
aluminum (e.g., from the plane) had melted, it would melt and flow
away from the heat source at its melting point of about 650 oC and
thus would not reach the yellow color observed for this molten metal.
Thus, molten aluminum is in fact ruled out with high probability. But
molten iron with the characteristics seen in this video is consistent
with a thermite-reaction attacking the steel columns in the Tower,
thus weakening the building just prior to its collapse, since thermite
produces molten iron at yellow-to- white hot temperatures. (As some of
the molten metal hits the side of the building in the video clip
above, note that the white-hot interior is exposed.) The reader may
wish to compare the dripping molten metal observed on the corner of
the South Tower just before its collapse with the dripping molten
http://www.checktheevidence.com/911/Thermite2.htm
January 21, 2005
Military Reloads with Nanotech

Smaller. Cheaper. Nastier. Those are the guiding principles behind the
military's latest bombs. The secret ingredient: nanotechnology that makes
for a bigger boom.

By John Gartner






January 21, 2005
Military Reloads with Nanotech

Smaller. Cheaper. Nastier. Those are the guiding principles behind the
military's latest bombs. The secret ingredient: nanotechnology that makes
for a bigger boom.

By John Gartner

Nanotechnology is grabbing headlines for its potential in advancing the
life sciences and computing research, but the Department of Defense (DoD)
found another use: a new class of weaponry that uses energy-packed
nanometals to create powerful, compact bombs.

With funding from the U.S. government, Sandia National Laboratories, the
Los Alamos National Laboratory, and the Lawrence Livermore National
Laboratory are researching how to manipulate the flow of energy within
and between molecules, a field known as nanoenergentics, which enables
building more lethal weapons such as "cave-buster bombs" that have
several times the detonation force of conventional bombs such as the
"daisy cutter" or MOAB (mother of all bombs).

Researchers can greatly increase the power of weapons by adding materials
known as superthermites that combine nanometals such as nanoaluminum with
metal oxides such as iron oxide, according to Steven Son, a project
leader in the Explosives Science and Technology group at Los Alamos.

"The advantage (of using nanometals) is in how fast you can get their
energy out," Son says.

Son says that the chemical reactions of superthermites are faster and
therefore release greater amounts of energy more rapidly.

"Superthermites can increase the (chemical) reaction time by a thousand
times," Son says, resulting in a very rapid reactive wave.

Son, who has been working on nanoenergetics for more than three years,
says that scientists can engineer nanoaluminum powders with different
particle sizes to vary the energy release rates. This enables the
material to be used in many applications, including underwater explosive
devices, primers for igniting firearms, and as fuel propellants for
rockets.

However, researchers aren't permitted to discuss what practical military
applications may come from this research.

Nanoaluminum is more chemically reactive because there are more atoms on
the surface area than standard aluminum, according to Douglas Carpenter,
the chief scientific officer at nanometals company Quantumsphere.

"Standard aluminum covers just one-tenth of one percent of the surface
area (with atoms), versus fifty percent for nanoaluminum," Carpenter
says.

Carpenter says the U.S. military has developed "cave-buster" bombs using
nanoaluminum, and it is also working on missiles and torpedoes that move
so quickly that they strike their targets before evasive actions can be
taken.

"Nanoaluminum provides ultra high burn rates for propellants that are ten
times higher than existing propellants," says Carpenter.

The military is also trying to make sure that its bullets kill quickly.

The U.S. Army Environmental Center began a program in 1997 to develop
alternatives to the toxic lead that is used in the hundreds of millions
of rounds that are annually fired during conflicts and at its training
ranges. Carpenter says that although bullets using nanoaluminum are
ready to be field tested, the government has been slow implement the
technology.


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Ron O'Neal
2006-03-14 16:54:43 UTC
Permalink
The author of this "insightful" analysis forgot to mention that the pyramids
at Giza were constructed with the aid of levitation devices supplied by
aliens from Alpha Centauri.

(What a Bean Bag !)

RO
Post by Your ISP Hosts Child Porn, Warez, Movies - Ask Me How
http://www.physics.byu.edu/research/energy/htm7.html
Dramatic footage reveals yellow-to-white hot molten metal dripping
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2991254740145858863
&q=cameraplanet+9%2F11. The yellow color implies a molten-metal
temperature of approximately 1000 oC, evidently above that which the
dark- smoke hydrocarbon fires in the Towers could produce. If
aluminum (e.g., from the plane) had melted, it would melt and flow
away from the heat source at its melting point of about 650 oC and
thus would not reach the yellow color observed for this molten metal.
Thus, molten aluminum is in fact ruled out with high probability. But
molten iron with the characteristics seen in this video is consistent
with a thermite-reaction attacking the steel columns in the Tower,
thus weakening the building just prior to its collapse, since thermite
produces molten iron at yellow-to- white hot temperatures. (As some of
the molten metal hits the side of the building in the video clip
above, note that the white-hot interior is exposed.) The reader may
wish to compare the dripping molten metal observed on the corner of
the South Tower just before its collapse with the dripping molten
http://www.checktheevidence.com/911/Thermite2.htm
January 21, 2005
Military Reloads with Nanotech
Smaller. Cheaper. Nastier. Those are the guiding principles behind the
military's latest bombs. The secret ingredient: nanotechnology that makes
for a bigger boom.
By John Gartner
January 21, 2005
Military Reloads with Nanotech
Smaller. Cheaper. Nastier. Those are the guiding principles behind the
military's latest bombs. The secret ingredient: nanotechnology that makes
for a bigger boom.
By John Gartner
Nanotechnology is grabbing headlines for its potential in advancing the
life sciences and computing research, but the Department of Defense (DoD)
found another use: a new class of weaponry that uses energy-packed
nanometals to create powerful, compact bombs.
With funding from the U.S. government, Sandia National Laboratories, the
Los Alamos National Laboratory, and the Lawrence Livermore National
Laboratory are researching how to manipulate the flow of energy within
and between molecules, a field known as nanoenergentics, which enables
building more lethal weapons such as "cave-buster bombs" that have
several times the detonation force of conventional bombs such as the
"daisy cutter" or MOAB (mother of all bombs).
Researchers can greatly increase the power of weapons by adding materials
known as superthermites that combine nanometals such as nanoaluminum with
metal oxides such as iron oxide, according to Steven Son, a project
leader in the Explosives Science and Technology group at Los Alamos.
"The advantage (of using nanometals) is in how fast you can get their
energy out," Son says.
Son says that the chemical reactions of superthermites are faster and
therefore release greater amounts of energy more rapidly.
"Superthermites can increase the (chemical) reaction time by a thousand
times," Son says, resulting in a very rapid reactive wave.
Son, who has been working on nanoenergetics for more than three years,
says that scientists can engineer nanoaluminum powders with different
particle sizes to vary the energy release rates. This enables the
material to be used in many applications, including underwater explosive
devices, primers for igniting firearms, and as fuel propellants for
rockets.
However, researchers aren't permitted to discuss what practical military
applications may come from this research.
Nanoaluminum is more chemically reactive because there are more atoms on
the surface area than standard aluminum, according to Douglas Carpenter,
the chief scientific officer at nanometals company Quantumsphere.
"Standard aluminum covers just one-tenth of one percent of the surface
area (with atoms), versus fifty percent for nanoaluminum," Carpenter
says.
Carpenter says the U.S. military has developed "cave-buster" bombs using
nanoaluminum, and it is also working on missiles and torpedoes that move
so quickly that they strike their targets before evasive actions can be
taken.
"Nanoaluminum provides ultra high burn rates for propellants that are ten
times higher than existing propellants," says Carpenter.
The military is also trying to make sure that its bullets kill quickly.
The U.S. Army Environmental Center began a program in 1997 to develop
alternatives to the toxic lead that is used in the hundreds of millions
of rounds that are annually fired during conflicts and at its training
ranges. Carpenter says that although bullets using nanoaluminum are
ready to be field tested, the government has been slow implement the
technology.
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PagCal
2006-03-15 04:32:03 UTC
Permalink
Thermite has been around for years. Previously, it was used to weld
metals, but has since been replaced by more modern technology.

Thermite is just powdered Aluminum, some Aluminum Oxide, and Iron Oxides
(rust, among others).

Arsons also use thermite to 'waste' a building. They just take a 55
gallon drum of the stuff and wheel it in someplace and light it up. The
heat is so intense, that by the time the FD arives at the scene, it's
too late for the building.

And now, we find the government building thermite into bombs?

If you manipulate the particule size, and say, grind it up into smaller
particules, you will get a faster reaction when ignited, so this article
is not outside the technical relm.
Post by Your ISP Hosts Child Porn, Warez, Movies - Ask Me How
http://www.physics.byu.edu/research/energy/htm7.html
Dramatic footage reveals yellow-to-white hot molten metal dripping
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2991254740145858863
&q=cameraplanet+9%2F11. The yellow color implies a molten-metal
temperature of approximately 1000 oC, evidently above that which the
dark- smoke hydrocarbon fires in the Towers could produce. If
aluminum (e.g., from the plane) had melted, it would melt and flow
away from the heat source at its melting point of about 650 oC and
thus would not reach the yellow color observed for this molten metal.
Thus, molten aluminum is in fact ruled out with high probability. But
molten iron with the characteristics seen in this video is consistent
with a thermite-reaction attacking the steel columns in the Tower,
thus weakening the building just prior to its collapse, since thermite
produces molten iron at yellow-to- white hot temperatures. (As some of
the molten metal hits the side of the building in the video clip
above, note that the white-hot interior is exposed.) The reader may
wish to compare the dripping molten metal observed on the corner of
the South Tower just before its collapse with the dripping molten
http://www.checktheevidence.com/911/Thermite2.htm
January 21, 2005
Military Reloads with Nanotech
Smaller. Cheaper. Nastier. Those are the guiding principles behind the
military's latest bombs. The secret ingredient: nanotechnology that makes
for a bigger boom.
By John Gartner
January 21, 2005
Military Reloads with Nanotech
Smaller. Cheaper. Nastier. Those are the guiding principles behind the
military's latest bombs. The secret ingredient: nanotechnology that makes
for a bigger boom.
By John Gartner
Nanotechnology is grabbing headlines for its potential in advancing the
life sciences and computing research, but the Department of Defense (DoD)
found another use: a new class of weaponry that uses energy-packed
nanometals to create powerful, compact bombs.
With funding from the U.S. government, Sandia National Laboratories, the
Los Alamos National Laboratory, and the Lawrence Livermore National
Laboratory are researching how to manipulate the flow of energy within
and between molecules, a field known as nanoenergentics, which enables
building more lethal weapons such as "cave-buster bombs" that have
several times the detonation force of conventional bombs such as the
"daisy cutter" or MOAB (mother of all bombs).
Researchers can greatly increase the power of weapons by adding materials
known as superthermites that combine nanometals such as nanoaluminum with
metal oxides such as iron oxide, according to Steven Son, a project
leader in the Explosives Science and Technology group at Los Alamos.
"The advantage (of using nanometals) is in how fast you can get their
energy out," Son says.
Son says that the chemical reactions of superthermites are faster and
therefore release greater amounts of energy more rapidly.
"Superthermites can increase the (chemical) reaction time by a thousand
times," Son says, resulting in a very rapid reactive wave.
Son, who has been working on nanoenergetics for more than three years,
says that scientists can engineer nanoaluminum powders with different
particle sizes to vary the energy release rates. This enables the
material to be used in many applications, including underwater explosive
devices, primers for igniting firearms, and as fuel propellants for
rockets.
However, researchers aren't permitted to discuss what practical military
applications may come from this research.
Nanoaluminum is more chemically reactive because there are more atoms on
the surface area than standard aluminum, according to Douglas Carpenter,
the chief scientific officer at nanometals company Quantumsphere.
"Standard aluminum covers just one-tenth of one percent of the surface
area (with atoms), versus fifty percent for nanoaluminum," Carpenter
says.
Carpenter says the U.S. military has developed "cave-buster" bombs using
nanoaluminum, and it is also working on missiles and torpedoes that move
so quickly that they strike their targets before evasive actions can be
taken.
"Nanoaluminum provides ultra high burn rates for propellants that are ten
times higher than existing propellants," says Carpenter.
The military is also trying to make sure that its bullets kill quickly.
The U.S. Army Environmental Center began a program in 1997 to develop
alternatives to the toxic lead that is used in the hundreds of millions
of rounds that are annually fired during conflicts and at its training
ranges. Carpenter says that although bullets using nanoaluminum are
ready to be field tested, the government has been slow implement the
technology.
[1] 2 Next »
g***@gmaildo.tocom
2006-03-15 09:50:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by PagCal
Thermite has been around for years. Previously, it was used to weld
metals, but has since been replaced by more modern technology.
Thermite is just powdered Aluminum, some Aluminum Oxide, and Iron Oxides
(rust, among others).
Since WWII or before , from what I read..
Post by PagCal
Arsons also use thermite to 'waste' a building. They just take a 55
gallon drum of the stuff and wheel it in someplace and light it up. The
heat is so intense, that by the time the FD arives at the scene, it's
too late for the building.
And now, we find the government building thermite into bombs?
If you manipulate the particule size, and say, grind it up into smaller
particules, you will get a faster reaction when ignited, so this article
is not outside the technical relm.
There was a story in one of the books about the Dambusters, about some
British scientist discovering that the Germans had added some aluminium
to the explosive in their bombs, making them 10% or so more powerfull,
and he brought this to the attention of the British bombmakers, who
pointed out that most bombs at that time missed their targets (about
2% landed near where intended), so the power of the bomb was not the
most important part.. There was a picture in the book of a railway
aquaduct in France that was meant to be destroyed to halt supplies to
the front, the railway ran through a landscape dotted with bomb
craters, undamaged. Oh, and the bombmakers explained really why
aluminium was not included `Hasn't been approved, Old Boy!'
--
greymaus, the grumpy scrounger
Leonard Blaisdell
2006-03-15 23:51:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by g***@gmaildo.tocom
Post by PagCal
Thermite is just powdered Aluminum, some Aluminum Oxide, and Iron Oxides
(rust, among others).
Since WWII or before , from what I read..
We used to use thermite to start the reduction of tungsten oxide to
tungsten in my least favorite job ever.
Post by g***@gmaildo.tocom
There was a picture in the book of a railway
aquaduct in France that was meant to be destroyed to halt supplies to
the front, the railway ran through a landscape dotted with bomb
craters, undamaged. Oh, and the bombmakers explained really why
aluminium was not included `Hasn't been approved, Old Boy!'
I seem to remember that Churchill gave the credit to the Postmaster
General or British equivalent for pushing adding aluminum to bombs
again. It had been experimented with earlier, but aluminum was
originally redirected in the war effort.
We used aluminum dust to make bombs in my second least favorite job ever.

Leonard Blaisdell
--
<http://web0.greatbasin.net/~leo/>
g***@gmaildo.tocom
2006-03-16 11:56:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Leonard Blaisdell
Post by g***@gmaildo.tocom
Post by PagCal
Thermite is just powdered Aluminum, some Aluminum Oxide, and Iron Oxides
(rust, among others).
Since WWII or before , from what I read..
We used to use thermite to start the reduction of tungsten oxide to
tungsten in my least favorite job ever.
Post by g***@gmaildo.tocom
There was a picture in the book of a railway
aquaduct in France that was meant to be destroyed to halt supplies to
the front, the railway ran through a landscape dotted with bomb
craters, undamaged. Oh, and the bombmakers explained really why
aluminium was not included `Hasn't been approved, Old Boy!'
I seem to remember that Churchill gave the credit to the Postmaster
General or British equivalent for pushing adding aluminum to bombs
again. It had been experimented with earlier, but aluminum was
originally redirected in the war effort.
We used aluminum dust to make bombs in my second least favorite job ever.
Leonard Blaisdell
My Gawd, you have been lucky..
--
greymaus
Just Another Grumpy Old Man
Lee Ayrton
2006-03-16 20:36:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Leonard Blaisdell
Post by g***@gmaildo.tocom
Post by PagCal
Thermite is just powdered Aluminum, some Aluminum Oxide, and Iron Oxides
(rust, among others).
Since WWII or before , from what I read..
We used to use thermite to start the reduction of tungsten oxide to
tungsten in my least favorite job ever.
Wasn't Thermite used to weld pre-war trolley track joints? An attempt
to find a Web reference for that isn't coming easily to hand.
Donna Richoux
2006-03-16 20:27:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lee Ayrton
Post by Leonard Blaisdell
Post by g***@gmaildo.tocom
Post by PagCal
Thermite is just powdered Aluminum, some Aluminum Oxide, and Iron Oxides
(rust, among others).
Since WWII or before , from what I read..
We used to use thermite to start the reduction of tungsten oxide to
tungsten in my least favorite job ever.
Wasn't Thermite used to weld pre-war trolley track joints? An attempt
to find a Web reference for that isn't coming easily to hand.
I think that was Marmite.
--
Donna "good for everything in the home" Richoux
TOliver
2006-03-17 15:21:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Donna Richoux
Post by Lee Ayrton
Post by Leonard Blaisdell
Post by g***@gmaildo.tocom
Post by PagCal
Thermite is just powdered Aluminum, some Aluminum Oxide, and Iron Oxides
(rust, among others).
Since WWII or before , from what I read..
We used to use thermite to start the reduction of tungsten oxide to
tungsten in my least favorite job ever.
Wasn't Thermite used to weld pre-war trolley track joints? An attempt
to find a Web reference for that isn't coming easily to hand.
I think that was Marmite.
--
Donna "good for everything in the home" Richoux
No, Bakelite, the 'riginal dark brown sort....

TMO
kaih= (Kai Henningsen)
2006-03-25 12:22:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by TOliver
Post by Donna Richoux
Post by Lee Ayrton
Post by Leonard Blaisdell
Post by g***@gmaildo.tocom
Post by PagCal
Thermite is just powdered Aluminum, some Aluminum Oxide, and Iron Oxides
(rust, among others).
Since WWII or before , from what I read..
We used to use thermite to start the reduction of tungsten oxide to
tungsten in my least favorite job ever.
Wasn't Thermite used to weld pre-war trolley track joints? An attempt
to find a Web reference for that isn't coming easily to hand.
I think that was Marmite.
--
Donna "good for everything in the home" Richoux
No, Bakelite, the 'riginal dark brown sort....
Coke Lite.

Kai
--
http://www.westfalen.de/private/khms/
"... by God I *KNOW* what this network is for, and you can't have it."
- Russ Allbery (***@stanford.edu)
Leonard Blaisdell
2006-03-16 23:09:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lee Ayrton
Wasn't Thermite used to weld pre-war trolley track joints? An attempt
to find a Web reference for that isn't coming easily to hand.
A google for "thermite welding" yields a lot of results including rail
welding. I found one reference that indicated that is was used on rails
in Minneapolis/St. Paul as early as 1909. And a reference that the
reaction was discovered in 1895. So I'd almost put money on your first
statement.

Leonard Blaisdell
--
<http://web0.greatbasin.net/~leo/>
David Scheidt
2006-03-17 02:23:59 UTC
Permalink
Leonard Blaisdell <***@greatbasin.com> wrote:
:In article <dvchgf$lhr$***@reader2.panix.com>,
: Lee Ayrton <***@REMOVE_ME.panix.com> wrote:

:> Wasn't Thermite used to weld pre-war trolley track joints? An attempt
:> to find a Web reference for that isn't coming easily to hand.

:A google for "thermite welding" yields a lot of results including rail
:welding. I found one reference that indicated that is was used on rails
:in Minneapolis/St. Paul as early as 1909. And a reference that the
:reaction was discovered in 1895. So I'd almost put money on your first
:statement.

It was invented as a welding process right after the turn of the 20th
century, in Germany. (I don't know about the reaction itself.)
I've got a welding process textbook that talks
about it. I think it's in the extended storage section of the library
(a storage locker in another county), so I can't provide a cite for
that. If there's great demand, I can, on a Ricean timeline.

It was certainly used for welding rails early on. Rails are difficult
to weld -- they're quite thick, the alloy used melts at high
temperature.

David "mmm.... Molten steel!" Scheidt
Paul Ding
2006-03-17 04:43:23 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 17 Mar 2006 02:23:59 +0000 (UTC), David Scheidt
Post by David Scheidt
If there's great demand, I can, on a Ricean timeline.
Anybody up for a pool, on how long it takes for the dictionaries to
add Ricean to their word lists?

And whether they understand what it means?

Ed, you're going to be famous. (And since you'll be reading this about
then, Merry Christmas!)
--
AmishHosting.com
Lee Ayrton
2006-03-17 15:42:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Ding
On Fri, 17 Mar 2006 02:23:59 +0000 (UTC), David Scheidt
Post by David Scheidt
If there's great demand, I can, on a Ricean timeline.
Anybody up for a pool, on how long it takes for the dictionaries to
add Ricean to their word lists?
And whether they understand what it means?
Ed, you're going to be famous. (And since you'll be reading this about
then, Merry Christmas!)
Not our own Ed, and not quite the right kind of signal delay, but not
too far removed, either.
<URL:http://computing-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Rician+fading>
danny burstein
2006-03-17 05:46:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Scheidt
:> Wasn't Thermite used to weld pre-war trolley track joints? An attempt
:> to find a Web reference for that isn't coming easily to hand.
Still in use (at least as of a couple of years ago).

I've got photos I took of NYC Transit workers
using it _underground_ a couple of decades ago.
(sigh...). Lots and lots of smoke, so I don't
know if they still use it downstairs.

Short version:

Take two ends of rail. Slap clay mold around them.
Pour thermite on top.

Ignite.

Run.

Come back...

Snap (and/or break) mold away.

Take Big Macho Rotary Grinder (powered,
in this case, by the 600V DC third rail)
and use it to smooth out the edges.

Advantages of thermite:

a) it works..
b) it's cheap
c) it doesn't require other equipment....

d) you get the iron you need for gap filling
from the termite reaction.
--
_____________________________________________________
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[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]
Ray Heindl
2006-03-17 22:00:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by danny burstein
a) it works..
b) it's cheap
c) it doesn't require other equipment....
d) you get the iron you need for gap filling
from the termite reaction.
But you need to be careful -- look what it did to the spaceship in _The
Thing from Another World_.
--
Ray Heindl
(remove the Xs to reply)
TeaLady (Mari C.)
2006-03-17 22:35:44 UTC
Permalink
danny burstein <***@panix.com> wrote in news:dvdifg$3h$1
@reader2.panix.com:
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Post by danny burstein
d) you get the iron you need for gap filling
from the termite reaction.
Termites got iron ?

Who'd a thunk it.
--
TeaLady (mari)

"The principal of Race is meant to embody and express the utter
negation of human freedom, the denial of equal rights, a
challenge in the face of mankind." A. Kolnai
Avast ye scurvy dogs ! Thar be no disease in this message.
Ray Heindl
2006-03-18 22:48:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by TeaLady (Mari C.)
Post by danny burstein
d) you get the iron you need for gap filling
from the termite reaction.
Termites got iron ?
Who'd a thunk it.
That's why they're not allowed near MRI machines. All that iron would
make them explode like a tattoo.
--
Ray Heindl
(remove the Xs to reply)
David Lesher
2006-03-19 06:23:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by danny burstein
Post by David Scheidt
:> Wasn't Thermite used to weld pre-war trolley track joints? An attempt
:> to find a Web reference for that isn't coming easily to hand.
Still in use (at least as of a couple of years ago).
http://www.aarc.com.au/aarc/news/photolib/photos_thermit.html
http://www.aarc.com.au/aarc/news/photos_thermit_alice.htm
--
A host is a host from coast to ***@nrk.com
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433
Ray Heindl
2006-03-19 21:10:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Lesher
Post by danny burstein
Post by David Scheidt
:> Wasn't Thermite used to weld pre-war trolley track joints? An
:> attempt to find a Web reference for that isn't coming easily
:> to hand.
Still in use (at least as of a couple of years ago).
http://www.aarc.com.au/aarc/news/photolib/photos_thermit.html
http://www.aarc.com.au/aarc/news/photos_thermit_alice.htm
Interesting how much was left to be ground off. But for ceremonial
track completion it'll never replace the golden spike.
--
Ray Heindl
(remove the Xs to reply)
Thomas Prufer
2006-03-20 15:31:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ray Heindl
Interesting how much was left to be ground off. But for ceremonial
track completion it'll never replace the golden spike.
I saw a thermite weld at an exhibition of such things, and I think I recall that
lots of that comes off with a whack with a hammer. Also something about the
extra iron heating the track ends.

Thomas Prufer
Ray Heindl
2006-03-20 21:07:42 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 19 Mar 2006 21:10:30 GMT, Ray Heindl
Post by Ray Heindl
Interesting how much was left to be ground off. But for
ceremonial track completion it'll never replace the golden spike.
I saw a thermite weld at an exhibition of such things, and I think
I recall that lots of that comes off with a whack with a hammer.
Also something about the extra iron heating the track ends.
Ah, that makes sense. Sort of like the technique plumbers used to use
to solder lead pipes: splash on lots of molten solder, until the joint
gets hot enough for the solder to stick.
--
Ray "it's a cinch" Heindl
(remove the Xs to reply)
Lon
2006-03-22 06:48:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Thomas Prufer
Post by Ray Heindl
Interesting how much was left to be ground off. But for ceremonial
track completion it'll never replace the golden spike.
I saw a thermite weld at an exhibition of such things, and I think I recall that
lots of that comes off with a whack with a hammer. Also something about the
extra iron heating the track ends.
Thomas Prufer
The best welds are done by C4 or similar. Granted, I suspect even the
art form from New Mexico Tech is no longer as politically acceptable as
it was in the early 60's. Not sure if anyone has ever harnessed a nuke
for welding, unless you count that manhole cover that got welded to a
passing sputnik.
Thomas Prufer
2006-03-22 07:39:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lon
The best welds are done by C4 or similar. Granted, I suspect even the
art form from New Mexico Tech is no longer as politically acceptable as
it was in the early 60's. Not sure if anyone has ever harnessed a nuke
for welding, unless you count that manhole cover that got welded to a
passing sputnik.
I recall a method of reforming metals that used underwater explosions. The
pressure would press the material into whatever complicated shape one needed,
and couldn't otherwise achieve. Like a press, but capable of filling undercuts
and such. They later replaced the explosive with a heavy-duty spark, which would
turn some water to steam with a similar effect. Then there's "explosive
rivets"...


Thomas Prufer
g***@gmaildo.tocom
2006-03-22 13:40:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Thomas Prufer
Post by Lon
The best welds are done by C4 or similar. Granted, I suspect even the
art form from New Mexico Tech is no longer as politically acceptable as
it was in the early 60's. Not sure if anyone has ever harnessed a nuke
for welding, unless you count that manhole cover that got welded to a
passing sputnik.
I recall a method of reforming metals that used underwater explosions. The
pressure would press the material into whatever complicated shape one needed,
and couldn't otherwise achieve. Like a press, but capable of filling undercuts
and such. They later replaced the explosive with a heavy-duty spark, which would
turn some water to steam with a similar effect. Then there's "explosive
rivets"...
The underwater explosive trick was standard, at least about thirty
years ago, for some shapes. Factories using that method were located
well away from other habitated areas because of the noise.. I think
one was located out in the Mojave desert. It used to be described in
engineering textbooks.
--
greymaus
Just Another Grumpy Old Man
Thomas Prufer
2006-03-22 14:07:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by g***@gmaildo.tocom
The underwater explosive trick was standard, at least about thirty
years ago, for some shapes. Factories using that method were located
well away from other habitated areas because of the noise.. I think
one was located out in the Mojave desert. It used to be described in
engineering textbooks.
This was from a film in an engineering lecture. More spectacular and filmable
than, say, electroplating.

Thomas Prufer
Lon
2006-03-23 01:46:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Thomas Prufer
Post by g***@gmaildo.tocom
The underwater explosive trick was standard, at least about thirty
years ago, for some shapes. Factories using that method were located
well away from other habitated areas because of the noise.. I think
one was located out in the Mojave desert. It used to be described in
engineering textbooks.
This was from a film in an engineering lecture. More spectacular and filmable
than, say, electroplating.
Coupla dinky flash movies from new mexico tech's explosive research
center at http://www.emrtc.nmt.edu/

Bummer, none of the good ones from researching warhead efficiency appear
to be public. Even the St. Patrick's day celebration typically had more
"unaccounted for" explosive celebrations.
Thomas Prufer
2006-03-23 07:12:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lon
Coupla dinky flash movies from new mexico tech's explosive research
center at http://www.emrtc.nmt.edu/
I personally know a guy whose job it as to calculate the minimum distance a ship
X could be from mine Y and remain undamaged when the mine goes off. Lots of
theory and calculation and simulation...

Eventually, it came to real-world test: they carefully placed ship X and mine Y
-- and then placed the guy aboard the ship. (He stayed below deck, wearing
hearing protection.)


Thomas Prufer
g***@gmaildo.tocom
2006-03-23 08:51:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Thomas Prufer
Post by Lon
Coupla dinky flash movies from new mexico tech's explosive research
center at http://www.emrtc.nmt.edu/
I personally know a guy whose job it as to calculate the minimum distance a ship
X could be from mine Y and remain undamaged when the mine goes off. Lots of
theory and calculation and simulation...
Eventually, it came to real-world test: they carefully placed ship X and mine Y
-- and then placed the guy aboard the ship. (He stayed below deck, wearing
hearing protection.)
Thomas Prufer
Cite?.. This guy must have been REALLY stupid.

(Just checked the top line, ALT.URBAN.LEGENDS)
--
greymaus
Just Another Grumpy Old Man
Thomas Prufer
2006-03-23 17:41:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by g***@gmaildo.tocom
Post by Thomas Prufer
Post by Lon
Coupla dinky flash movies from new mexico tech's explosive research
center at http://www.emrtc.nmt.edu/
I personally know a guy whose job it as to calculate the minimum distance a ship
X could be from mine Y and remain undamaged when the mine goes off. Lots of
theory and calculation and simulation...
Eventually, it came to real-world test: they carefully placed ship X and mine Y
-- and then placed the guy aboard the ship. (He stayed below deck, wearing
hearing protection.)
Thomas Prufer
Cite?.. This guy must have been REALLY stupid.
No. It was requirement of the job: If it's your job to say that the ship and all
aboard will be safe and undamaged from a mine explosion, you'd better be sure
enough of your answer to stand where your advice will place a full Navy crew.

Thomas Prufer
Le Trôle
2006-03-23 23:26:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Thomas Prufer
Post by g***@gmaildo.tocom
Post by Thomas Prufer
Post by Lon
Coupla dinky flash movies from new mexico tech's explosive research
center at http://www.emrtc.nmt.edu/
I personally know a guy whose job it as to calculate the minimum distance a ship
X could be from mine Y and remain undamaged when the mine goes off. Lots of
theory and calculation and simulation...
Eventually, it came to real-world test: they carefully placed ship X and mine Y
-- and then placed the guy aboard the ship. (He stayed below deck, wearing
hearing protection.)
Thomas Prufer
Cite?.. This guy must have been REALLY stupid.
No. It was requirement of the job: If it's your job to say that the ship and all
aboard will be safe and undamaged from a mine explosion, you'd better be sure
enough of your answer to stand where your advice will place a full Navy crew.
Thomas Prufer
cite?
Thomas Prufer
2006-03-24 07:23:19 UTC
Permalink
cite?
The guy who told me what the photo of the ship with the water explosion next to
it was doing over his desk, and why it was there?

It was sorta backed up by being in an office where the response of ships,
buildings etc. to blasts was modelled.

Thomas Prufer
David DeLaney
2006-03-24 08:43:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Thomas Prufer
cite?
The guy who told me what the photo of the ship with the water explosion next to
it was doing over his desk, and why it was there?
It was sorta backed up by being in an office where the response of ships,
buildings etc. to blasts was modelled.
(Hint: A request for a cite from someone who's proffered disruptive behavior
in the past -and- whose username is what he thinks is French for "the troll"
isn't meant to provoke actual discussion...)

Dave "I'm not sure he has a cite license for that thing, in other words" DeLaney
--
\/David DeLaney posting from ***@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
Thomas Prufer
2006-03-24 10:20:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by David DeLaney
(Hint: A request for a cite from someone who's proffered disruptive behavior
in the past -and- whose username is what he thinks is French for "the troll"
isn't meant to provoke actual discussion...)
Dave "I'm not sure he has a cite license for that thing, in other words" DeLaney
Oh, yeah. I did think if it were a FOAF thing, and I did think about how I did
know the "put your body where your calculations are" was true. Came to the
conclusion that, yes, this is true, for values of true that would suffice for a
"T" in the FAQ.

I'd thought long and hard because I'd heard something similar before, but I
can't recall if was some practice related by Andrea, parachute packers being
asked to jump with chutes of their own packing, medieval smiths being shot at in
their own armor...


Thomas Prufer
kaih= (Kai Henningsen)
2006-03-25 12:31:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Thomas Prufer
Post by David DeLaney
(Hint: A request for a cite from someone who's proffered disruptive
behavior in the past -and- whose username is what he thinks is French for
"the troll" isn't meant to provoke actual discussion...)
Dave "I'm not sure he has a cite license for that thing, in other words" DeLaney
Oh, yeah. I did think if it were a FOAF thing, and I did think about how I
did know the "put your body where your calculations are" was true. Came to
the conclusion that, yes, this is true, for values of true that would
suffice for a "T" in the FAQ.
I'd thought long and hard because I'd heard something similar before, but I
can't recall if was some practice related by Andrea, parachute packers being
asked to jump with chutes of their own packing, medieval smiths being shot
at in their own armor...
Chinese airline managers asked to fly with their own planes?

Kai
--
http://www.westfalen.de/private/khms/
"... by God I *KNOW* what this network is for, and you can't have it."
- Russ Allbery (***@stanford.edu)
Le Trôle
2006-03-24 21:23:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by David DeLaney
Post by Thomas Prufer
cite?
The guy who told me what the photo of the ship with the water explosion next to
it was doing over his desk, and why it was there?
It was sorta backed up by being in an office where the response of ships,
buildings etc. to blasts was modelled.
(Hint: A request for a cite from someone who's proffered disruptive behavior
in the past -and- whose username is what he thinks is French for "the troll"
isn't meant to provoke actual discussion...)
Hint1: Le Trôle is my surname. The actual meaning is moot. Since you do
seem to care about such things, the name DeLaney is often seen in the US
on the types of fixtures where Armitage Shanks is found in the UK.
I will think of you around four times per day when I next visit America.

Hint2: We have your WTF outburst as an example of how one simple
word can trigger a belligerent and unexpected response.
On the bright side, you probably never have to share a seat on the bus.

Hint3: You need to worry less about a name and past liberties with dunces
and more about uncited tales. I thought your name was familiar, apart from
beer disposal, and it seems this isn't the first time you've jumped into a
thread
to inexplicably prevent the dismissal of suspected porkie. A cite would be
nice.

Hint4: Fugu-Chef Shipbuilders? Purposely placed in danger for no reason
other than as some sort of incentive to guarantee success?

Hint5: Repeat reading Hint4 at least a dozen times, counting to ten
before each repetition. Feel free to ask for a deeper explanation if you
don't quite appreciate the unlikelihood and multi-level wrongness of
Punitively Instigated Shipbuilder Sacrifice. (PISS)
David DeLaney
2006-03-25 02:40:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Le Trôle
Post by David DeLaney
(Hint: A request for a cite from someone who's proffered disruptive behavior
in the past -and- whose username is what he thinks is French for "the troll"
isn't meant to provoke actual discussion...)
Hint1: Le Trôle is my surname. The actual meaning is moot. Since you do
seem to care about such things, the name DeLaney is often seen in the US
on the types of fixtures where Armitage Shanks is found in the UK.
I will think of you around four times per day when I next visit America.
My work here is done.
Post by Le Trôle
Hint2: We have your WTF outburst as an example of how one simple
word can trigger a belligerent and unexpected response.
"Waves To Friends" is _belligerent_? I guess maybe unexpected...

Dave "searching the deeper darkness _before_ the dawn of usenet" DeLaney
--
\/David DeLaney posting from ***@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
Le Trôle
2006-03-25 05:36:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by David DeLaney
Post by Le Trôle
Post by David DeLaney
(Hint: A request for a cite from someone who's proffered disruptive behavior
in the past -and- whose username is what he thinks is French for "the troll"
isn't meant to provoke actual discussion...)
Hint1: Le Trôle is my surname. The actual meaning is moot. Since you do
seem to care about such things, the name DeLaney is often seen in the US
on the types of fixtures where Armitage Shanks is found in the UK.
I will think of you around four times per day when I next visit America.
My work here is done.
Consider your accomplishment. The casual reader can see for himself where
the disruptive behaviour originated. You were wrong both in your judgement
of others, and in the way that you cluelessly did the very thing that you
accused me of doing. It is you, dear sir, who disrupted a discussion.
There's no need for you to justify your actions; there in none that can be
provided. You would do well to killfile me now before you develop
another urge to respond out of turn to a single word post of mine.

You have certainly done your job, if showing yourself to be rude and
fairly dishonest was on your list of things to do for today.
Post by David DeLaney
Post by Le Trôle
Hint2: We have your WTF outburst as an example of how one simple
word can trigger a belligerent and unexpected response.
"Waves To Friends" is _belligerent_? I guess maybe unexpected...
And the hand-waving begins indeed. You're busted, sunshine.
I've prepared a few links to help you see your error.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=provoke

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=unwarranted

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=belligerent

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=knave

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=bitch-slap

Again, I respectfully request that you not respond.
David DeLaney
2006-03-25 10:51:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Le Trôle
Post by David DeLaney
My work here is done.
Consider your accomplishment. The casual reader can see for himself where
the disruptive behaviour originated.
The discerning reader can also.
Post by Le Trôle
Post by David DeLaney
"Waves To Friends" is _belligerent_? I guess maybe unexpected...
And the hand-waving begins indeed. You're busted, sunshine.
Why - what did you think it meant? I'm curious now.
Post by Le Trôle
Again, I respectfully request that you not respond.
Oops, too late.

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from ***@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
Thomas Prufer
2006-03-25 08:43:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Le Trôle
Hint4: Fugu-Chef Shipbuilders? Purposely placed in danger for no reason
other than as some sort of incentive to guarantee success?
Yes. And it's no more unlikely than asking that a professional parachute packer
jump using a parachute they packed.

Look here if you won't take my word for it:
<http://www.dt.navy.mil/sur-str-mat/sur-str-in/sur-str-non/sho-tri-ins/index.html>

(Pictures of ships under "shock trials".)

Take it as indicative that there may be more truth to what I say than you
credit...



Thomas Prufer
Le Trôle
2006-03-25 16:02:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Thomas Prufer
Post by Le Trôle
Hint4: Fugu-Chef Shipbuilders? Purposely placed in danger for no reason
other than as some sort of incentive to guarantee success?
Yes. And it's no more unlikely than asking that a professional parachute packer
jump using a parachute they packed.
Inferences from unrelated activities that do not completely parallel
the situation sound almost as good as cites. Parachutes are not ships.
Asking is not requiring. A parachute packer may or may not be
certified to jump himself. You can't test a parachute packing in
fugu fashion anyway. It's no longer packed and ready for use by
the end consumer. You're back at square one. Bad example.
Lateral thinking isn't always a Good Thing.
<http://www.dt.navy.mil/sur-str-mat/sur-str-in/sur-str-non/sho-tri-ins/index
.html>
Post by Thomas Prufer
(Pictures of ships under "shock trials".)
The link describes neither who was aboard nor why they had to be
there. The practise of shock trials is not in question. The participation
of designers in shock trials is not in question. The only question is
whether or not a given man must risk his life to prove his work
complete. Again, the original poster said the engineer had to be
specifically placed in where he would be in danger if his calculations
were wrong. You concurred.
Post by Thomas Prufer
Take it as indicative that there may be more truth to what I say than you
credit...
Take it as indicative? The only thing indicated is the continued acceptance
of an asinine and unproven practise, based upon faulty comparisons.

Consider these points if you respond, and I do hope there is no response.

1. A commander will not allow personnel to be placed in danger if there
is no operational need, even if they are incompetent or 'deserve it'.
In your link, the crew is manning the rails on the port side. Why?

2. A ship is designed from the keel with a specific set of requirements.
The bottom ship in your link took 12 years to design and build.

3. Point 2 is in itself *indicative* of the fallacious tale here. There are
hundreds of senior engineers who are equally responsible for the integrity
of a ship. Anyone who could single-handedly calculate the sum of their
efforts would have such intense brain power, they could dispense with
the depth charge, and shock trial the ship with telepathic waves.

4. We don't practise seppuku, either.
Thomas Prufer
2006-03-26 07:38:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Le Trôle
The link describes neither who was aboard nor why they had to be
there. The practise of shock trials is not in question. The participation
of designers in shock trials is not in question. The only question is
whether or not a given man must risk his life to prove his work
complete. Again, the original poster said the engineer had to be
specifically placed in where he would be in danger if his calculations
were wrong. You concurred.
I am that poster. The man told me so. I have no reason to think he was lying,
and lots of reason to think he wasn't. OK?


Thomas Prufer
Le Trôle
2006-03-26 13:01:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Thomas Prufer
Post by Le Trôle
The link describes neither who was aboard nor why they had to be
there. The practise of shock trials is not in question. The participation
of designers in shock trials is not in question. The only question is
whether or not a given man must risk his life to prove his work
complete. Again, the original poster said the engineer had to be
specifically placed in where he would be in danger if his calculations
were wrong. You concurred.
I am that poster. The man told me so. I have no reason to think he was lying,
and lots of reason to think he wasn't. OK?
He wasn't lying. Neither are you.
Thomas Prufer
2006-03-26 13:49:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Le Trôle
He wasn't lying. Neither are you.
And I think that the practice isn't as completely wrong-headed as you seem to
think.

It's not all simulation, and then let's shove a guy aboard and see if he
survives -- there'll be tests, measurements, cross-checking with older data etc.
to validate the software, make sure it's operating within limits where the model
is valid etc etc.

And eventually there a crew will be necessary to run a ship next to a mine as
shown in the photos. Anyone willing to give the orders to place them there could
well ask that the person saying that this is safe (for closely-specified values
of "safe") lead from the front, as it were.

If I were a prospective crew member, I'd be really nervous if the man that
calculated the safety margin refused to come aboard on a test -- I think it's
more a question of crew confidence than of questioning the accuracy of the
engineering.



Thomas Prufer
Le Trôle
2006-03-26 15:17:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Thomas Prufer
Post by Le Trôle
He wasn't lying. Neither are you.
And I think that the practice isn't as completely wrong-headed as you seem to
think.
It's wrong-headed on so many levels.
Post by Thomas Prufer
It's not all simulation, and then let's shove a guy aboard and see if he
survives -- there'll be tests, measurements, cross-checking with older data etc.
to validate the software, make sure it's operating within limits where the model
is valid etc etc.
None of that requires placing the sacrificial statistician in the bilge.
Post by Thomas Prufer
And eventually there a crew will be necessary to run a ship next to a mine as
shown in the photos. Anyone willing to give the orders to place them there could
well ask that the person saying that this is safe (for closely-specified values
of "safe") lead from the front, as it were.
And eventually there a crew will be necessary to run a ship next to a mine
as
shown in the photos. Anyone willing to place personnel in danger merely
to prove a point has lost the moral authority necessary to command.
Slogans about leading from the front are moot.
Post by Thomas Prufer
If I were a prospective crew member, I'd be really nervous if the man that
calculated the safety margin refused to come aboard on a test -- I think it's
more a question of crew confidence than of questioning the accuracy of the
engineering.
If I were a prospective crew member, I'd be really nervous if the man that
made ultimate decisions required me to place myself in danger for no reason
other than to prove a point -- I think it's a more a question of the command
structure requiring that sort of punitive sacrifice than the actual hazard
involved.
R H Draney
2006-03-26 17:39:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Le Trôle
4. We don't practise seppuku, either.
Nobody does...you either get it right on the first try or that's all she
wrote....r
--
This is *my* .sig file.
MINE!
You can't use it to advertise unless I say it's okay.
Greg Locock
2006-03-26 05:37:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Thomas Prufer
Post by Le Trôle
Hint4: Fugu-Chef Shipbuilders? Purposely placed in danger for no
reason other than as some sort of incentive to guarantee success?
Yes. And it's no more unlikely than asking that a professional
parachute packer jump using a parachute they packed.
<http://www.dt.navy.mil/sur-str-mat/sur-str-in/sur-str-non/sho-tri-
ins/
Post by Thomas Prufer
index.html>
(Pictures of ships under "shock trials".)
Take it as indicative that there may be more truth to what I say than
you credit...
No, doesn't wash. You don't have to risk anyone's life to do the test,
so why do so? An unmanned ship would generate exactly the same test
data.

The guy who models the crash performance of cars is not expected to do
the first test himself.

Cheers

Greg Locock
g***@gmaildo.tocom
2006-03-24 12:42:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Thomas Prufer
cite?
The guy who told me what the photo of the ship with the water explosion next to
it was doing over his desk, and why it was there?
It was sorta backed up by being in an office where the response of ships,
buildings etc. to blasts was modelled.
Thomas Prufer
I knew an old guy, now long dead, who described what it was like being
in a ship that was damaged by a magnetic mine. Not pleasant.

(Magnetic mines were set off by changes in the magnetism of the water
around it, they were a problem for a while, until means were found to
`de-gauss' the ships. Because of their mode of operation, they tended
to be bigger than contact mines)
--
greymaus
Just Another Grumpy Old Man
Lon
2006-03-23 01:43:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Thomas Prufer
Post by Lon
The best welds are done by C4 or similar. Granted, I suspect even the
art form from New Mexico Tech is no longer as politically acceptable as
it was in the early 60's. Not sure if anyone has ever harnessed a nuke
for welding, unless you count that manhole cover that got welded to a
passing sputnik.
I recall a method of reforming metals that used underwater explosions. The
pressure would press the material into whatever complicated shape one needed,
and couldn't otherwise achieve. Like a press, but capable of filling undercuts
and such. They later replaced the explosive with a heavy-duty spark, which would
turn some water to steam with a similar effect. Then there's "explosive
rivets"...
I think some of the underwater welding techniques used by the Navy may
have been refined considerably at New Mexico Tech as an offshoot of the
research in partnership with a few folks. I can't remember the lady
artist who did really kewl varicolored metal murals with explosive
lamination/welding as a result of having been at NMIMT. Cut, weld, or
simply blow shit up... all a matter of tuning and placement.
TeaLady (Mari C.)
2006-03-23 02:40:37 UTC
Permalink
Lon <***@comcast.net> wrote in news:***@comcast.com:
X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0612-1, 03/22/2006), Outbound message
X-Antivirus-Status: Clean
Post by Lon
On Tue, 21 Mar 2006 22:48:40 -0800, Lon
Post by Lon
The best welds are done by C4 or similar. Granted, I
suspect even the art form from New Mexico Tech is no
longer as politically acceptable as it was in the early
60's. Not sure if anyone has ever harnessed a nuke for
welding, unless you count that manhole cover that got
welded to a passing sputnik.
I recall a method of reforming metals that used underwater
explosions. The pressure would press the material into
whatever complicated shape one needed, and couldn't
otherwise achieve. Like a press, but capable of filling
undercuts and such. They later replaced the explosive with
a heavy-duty spark, which would turn some water to steam
with a similar effect. Then there's "explosive rivets"...
I think some of the underwater welding techniques used by
the Navy may have been refined considerably at New Mexico
Tech as an offshoot of the research in partnership with a
few folks. I can't remember the lady artist who did really
kewl varicolored metal murals with explosive
lamination/welding as a result of having been at NMIMT.
Cut, weld, or simply blow shit up... all a matter of tuning
and placement.
I vaguely recall seeing a teevee show with such an artist -
she'd pile up various metals and objects, or something like
that, and then BLAM and after the dust settled, she'd go in
and see if it all turned out the way she wanted. Looked like
fun, and the art was pretty impressive - different chemicals
and metals and such giving some wild and interesting colors
and patterns.

After the show aired, my mate made sure to remind, daily, for
a period of at least 4 months, that explosives are illegal in
our area.
--
TeaLady (mari)

"The principal of Race is meant to embody and express the
utter negation of human freedom, the denial of equal rights, a
challenge in the face of mankind." A. Kolnai
Avast ye scurvy dogs ! Thar be no disease in this message.
Thomas Prufer
2006-03-23 07:37:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by TeaLady (Mari C.)
I vaguely recall seeing a teevee show with such an artist -
she'd pile up various metals and objects, or something like
that, and then BLAM and after the dust settled, she'd go in
and see if it all turned out the way she wanted. Looked like
fun, and the art was pretty impressive - different chemicals
and metals and such giving some wild and interesting colors
and patterns.
I've seen something similar using clay... bit like splatter pop art, only in 3D.
I can't google it, but I did find something of interest to those few here who
read German: The Museum of Unheard-of Things.

One example of the exhibits: the skin of one of the last bonsai deer of the Zen
cloister Myken Vhu:
<http://www.museumderunerhoertendinge.de/dinge_1999/bonsai/bon.htm>

These were laboriously bred by the monks to be about 3-"5" high, and roamed
among glades of bonsai trees. There's four cites to scholarly works supporting
this, so temper your doubt.


Thomas Prufer
g***@gmaildo.tocom
2006-03-23 08:51:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Thomas Prufer
Post by TeaLady (Mari C.)
I vaguely recall seeing a teevee show with such an artist -
she'd pile up various metals and objects, or something like
that, and then BLAM and after the dust settled, she'd go in
and see if it all turned out the way she wanted. Looked like
fun, and the art was pretty impressive - different chemicals
and metals and such giving some wild and interesting colors
and patterns.
I've seen something similar using clay... bit like splatter pop art, only in 3D.
I can't google it, but I did find something of interest to those few here who
read German: The Museum of Unheard-of Things.
One example of the exhibits: the skin of one of the last bonsai deer of the Zen
<http://www.museumderunerhoertendinge.de/dinge_1999/bonsai/bon.htm>
These were laboriously bred by the monks to be about 3-"5" high, and roamed
among glades of bonsai trees. There's four cites to scholarly works supporting
this, so temper your doubt.
There are people breeding tiny breeds (as in small animals) of pigs
and sheep as we text this.
--
greymaus
Just Another Grumpy Old Man
Lizz Holmans
2006-03-23 13:44:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by g***@gmaildo.tocom
There are people breeding tiny breeds (as in small animals) of pigs
and sheep as we text this.
As a person with something of a height disability, I find this whole
thing a little scary.

We already have tiny humans--Why, I myself have given birth to three
of them. One of them was only 1 foot long.

Lizz 'He got taller' Holmans
--
Rumpeta, rumpeta, rumpeta
R H Draney
2006-03-23 15:16:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lizz Holmans
Post by g***@gmaildo.tocom
There are people breeding tiny breeds (as in small animals) of pigs
and sheep as we text this.
As a person with something of a height disability, I find this whole
thing a little scary.
When I took the group tour of Taliesin West, we tall people were warned to duck
when entering the living quarters...it seems Frank Lloyd Wright considered
people over five-foot-nine a waste of raw materials....

R H "our natural enemy is the swag lamp" Draney
--
This is *my* .sig file.
MINE!
You can't use it to advertise unless I say it's okay.
Lee Ayrton
2006-03-23 18:22:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by R H Draney
Post by Lizz Holmans
Post by g***@gmaildo.tocom
There are people breeding tiny breeds (as in small animals) of pigs
and sheep as we text this.
As a person with something of a height disability, I find this whole
thing a little scary.
When I took the group tour of Taliesin West, we tall people were warned to duck
when entering the living quarters...it seems Frank Lloyd Wright considered
people over five-foot-nine a waste of raw materials....
Well, ya know, people were so much shorter back then.....
Ray Heindl
2006-03-23 21:54:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by R H Draney
When I took the group tour of Taliesin West, we tall people were
warned to duck when entering the living quarters...it seems Frank
Lloyd Wright considered people over five-foot-nine a waste of raw
materials....
R H "our natural enemy is the swag lamp" Draney
I'm reminded of Al on _Police Squad_ (In Color), who was so tall his
head was never seen on camera. Someone asked him what he had done to
his face, and he said he'd walked into a fire sprinkler.

I read somewhere, eons ago, that the sets for the series _Bonanza_ were
built 7/8 scale to make the people look bigger.
--
Ray Heindl
(remove the Xs to reply)
Cindy Kandolf
2006-03-24 13:09:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by R H Draney
When I took the group tour of Taliesin West, we tall people were warned to duck
when entering the living quarters...it seems Frank Lloyd Wright considered
people over five-foot-nine a waste of raw materials....
Artistic and would-be artistic types are, of course, prone to fits of
sheer insanity.
Post by R H Draney
R H "our natural enemy is the swag lamp" Draney
People who design swag lamps apparently believe the average person is
about 5'6" tall.

People who design women's jeans apparently believe the average woman
is about 6'4" tall.

Now, if they'd work together and take the average of those two, I'd be
in business.

- Cindy Kandolf, certified language mechanic, mamma flodnak
flodmail: ***@nethelp.no flodhome: Bærum, Norway
flodweb: http://www.flodnak.com/
R H Draney
2006-03-24 15:37:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cindy Kandolf
Post by R H Draney
When I took the group tour of Taliesin West, we tall people were warned to duck
when entering the living quarters...it seems Frank Lloyd Wright considered
people over five-foot-nine a waste of raw materials....
Artistic and would-be artistic types are, of course, prone to fits of
sheer insanity.
Post by R H Draney
R H "our natural enemy is the swag lamp" Draney
People who design swag lamps apparently believe the average person is
about 5'6" tall.
People who design women's jeans apparently believe the average woman
is about 6'4" tall.
Now, if they'd work together and take the average of those two, I'd be
in business.
I'd be happy if whoever is in charge would stop hiring dwarves to trim the
branches that hang over sidewalks....

R H "step step duck, step step duck...no wonder we have bad backs" Draney
--
This is *my* .sig file.
MINE!
You can't use it to advertise unless I say it's okay.
Paul Ding
2006-03-24 19:35:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cindy Kandolf
People who design swag lamps apparently believe the average person is
about 5'6" tall.
People who design women's jeans apparently believe the average woman
is about 6'4" tall.
At 6'1" tall, I am surprised by the number of wall-hung urinals these
days that require that I either kneel or stand on a box in order to
use.

Fortunately, when I can find a tree, they seem to still come in
one-size-fits-all.
--
AmishHosting.com
R H Draney
2006-03-24 20:30:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Ding
At 6'1" tall, I am surprised by the number of wall-hung urinals these
days that require that I either kneel or stand on a box in order to
use.
Fortunately, when I can find a tree, they seem to still come in
one-size-fits-all.
Considering the wide variation in heights of male domestic dogs, it seems odd
that all fire hydrants are more or less the same size....r
--
This is *my* .sig file.
MINE!
You can't use it to advertise unless I say it's okay.
Charles Wm. Dimmick
2006-03-24 23:26:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by R H Draney
Post by Paul Ding
At 6'1" tall, I am surprised by the number of wall-hung urinals these
days that require that I either kneel or stand on a box in order to
use.
Fortunately, when I can find a tree, they seem to still come in
one-size-fits-all.
Considering the wide variation in heights of male domestic dogs, it seems odd
that all fire hydrants are more or less the same size....r
More-or-less true in the US of A, but in England they tend to
be flush with the pavement [=sidewalk].

See also:
http://www.wizdog.com/

and
Loading Image...

Charles
R H Draney
2006-03-25 00:13:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Charles Wm. Dimmick
Post by R H Draney
Considering the wide variation in heights of male domestic dogs, it seems odd
that all fire hydrants are more or less the same size....r
More-or-less true in the US of A, but in England they tend to
be flush with the pavement [=sidewalk].
This was somewhere in the upper twenty or thirty layers of my consciousness
because of a question on last weekend's "Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me"...it seems
dogs try to mark as high up as they can because subsequent visitors to the spot
will think there's a really *big* dog in the neighborhood...the smaller the dog,
the higher the leg is lifted....r
--
This is *my* .sig file.
MINE!
You can't use it to advertise unless I say it's okay.
g***@gmaildo.tocom
2006-03-25 12:52:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by R H Draney
Post by Charles Wm. Dimmick
Post by R H Draney
Considering the wide variation in heights of male domestic dogs, it seems odd
that all fire hydrants are more or less the same size....r
More-or-less true in the US of A, but in England they tend to
be flush with the pavement [=sidewalk].
This was somewhere in the upper twenty or thirty layers of my consciousness
because of a question on last weekend's "Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me"...it seems
dogs try to mark as high up as they can because subsequent visitors to the spot
will think there's a really *big* dog in the neighborhood...the smaller the dog,
the higher the leg is lifted....r
And little boys! (memories of first year in school)
--
greymaus
Just Another Grumpy Old Man
Lon
2006-03-25 16:35:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by R H Draney
Post by Charles Wm. Dimmick
Post by R H Draney
Considering the wide variation in heights of male domestic dogs, it seems odd
that all fire hydrants are more or less the same size....r
More-or-less true in the US of A, but in England they tend to
be flush with the pavement [=sidewalk].
This was somewhere in the upper twenty or thirty layers of my consciousness
because of a question on last weekend's "Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me"...it seems
dogs try to mark as high up as they can because subsequent visitors to the spot
will think there's a really *big* dog in the neighborhood...the smaller the dog,
the higher the leg is lifted....r
I am attempting to comprehend the chain above, but my mental imagerie is
having problems picturing how a pavement flush pooch can lift much of
anything.
Paul Ding
2006-03-23 20:27:30 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 23 Mar 2006 13:44:27 +0000, Lizz Holmans
Post by Lizz Holmans
We already have tiny humans--Why, I myself have given birth to three
of them. One of them was only 1 foot long.
Lizz 'He got taller' Holmans
You probably fed him after midnight.
--
AmishHosting.com
Lon
2006-03-24 04:47:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lizz Holmans
Post by g***@gmaildo.tocom
There are people breeding tiny breeds (as in small animals) of pigs
and sheep as we text this.
As a person with something of a height disability, I find this whole
thing a little scary.
We already have tiny humans--Why, I myself have given birth to three
of them. One of them was only 1 foot long.
I am reminded of a Randy Newman song here, one that used to drive the
height challenged ex ballistic.

Lon "go peep peep peep" Stowell
Don Freeman
2006-03-24 17:34:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lon
I am reminded of a Randy Newman song here, one that used to drive the
height challenged ex ballistic.
Was the ex aware that the song was a satirical reflection of prejudice in
general?

Don "RN is not exactly tall himself" Freeman
--
Ever had one of those days where you just felt like:
http://cosmoslair.com/BadDay.html ?
Lon
2006-03-25 16:36:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Don Freeman
Post by Lon
I am reminded of a Randy Newman song here, one that used to drive the
height challenged ex ballistic.
Was the ex aware that the song was a satirical reflection of prejudice in
general?
If the ex was capable of comprehending such subtleties, might not have
become an ex.
Don Freeman
2006-03-25 19:47:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lon
Post by Don Freeman
Post by Lon
I am reminded of a Randy Newman song here, one that used to drive the
height challenged ex ballistic.
Was the ex aware that the song was a satirical reflection of prejudice
in general?
If the ex was capable of comprehending such subtleties, might not have
become an ex.
Good point. Been there too.

--
Ever had one of those days where you just felt like:
http://cosmoslair.com/BadDay.html ?
R H Draney
2006-03-26 17:41:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Don Freeman
Post by Lon
If the ex was capable of comprehending such subtleties, might not have
become an ex.
Good point. Been there too.
"Irreconcilable differences" is lawyerese for "she didn't get my jokes"....r
--
This is *my* .sig file.
MINE!
You can't use it to advertise unless I say it's okay.
David
2006-03-23 23:36:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by g***@gmaildo.tocom
Post by Thomas Prufer
Post by TeaLady (Mari C.)
I vaguely recall seeing a teevee show with such an artist -
she'd pile up various metals and objects, or something like
that, and then BLAM and after the dust settled, she'd go in
and see if it all turned out the way she wanted. Looked like
fun, and the art was pretty impressive - different chemicals
and metals and such giving some wild and interesting colors
and patterns.
I've seen something similar using clay... bit like splatter pop art, only in 3D.
I can't google it, but I did find something of interest to those few here who
read German: The Museum of Unheard-of Things.
One example of the exhibits: the skin of one of the last bonsai deer of the Zen
<http://www.museumderunerhoertendinge.de/dinge_1999/bonsai/bon.htm>
These were laboriously bred by the monks to be about 3-"5" high, and roamed
among glades of bonsai trees. There's four cites to scholarly works supporting
this, so temper your doubt.
There are people breeding tiny breeds (as in small animals) of pigs
and sheep as we text this.
The reverse is also true. Breeding of chickens for rapid growth
resulted in a reduction of time for growth to a certain size from
thirteen weeks to six weeks back in the fifties/sixties. Personal
experience.
--
David
At the bottom of the application where it says
"sign here". I put "Sagittarius"
Don Freeman
2006-03-23 23:58:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by David
Post by g***@gmaildo.tocom
There are people breeding tiny breeds (as in small animals) of pigs
and sheep as we text this.
The reverse is also true. Breeding of chickens for rapid growth
resulted in a reduction of time for growth to a certain size from
thirteen weeks to six weeks back in the fifties/sixties. Personal
experience.
Oh? How much larger are you then your parents?
--
-Don
Ever had one of those days where you just felt like:
http://cosmoslair.com/BadDay.html ?
David
2006-03-24 06:17:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Don Freeman
Post by David
Post by g***@gmaildo.tocom
There are people breeding tiny breeds (as in small animals) of pigs
and sheep as we text this.
The reverse is also true. Breeding of chickens for rapid growth
resulted in a reduction of time for growth to a certain size from
thirteen weeks to six weeks back in the fifties/sixties. Personal
experience.
Oh? How much larger are you then your parents?
Vertically or horizontally?
--
David
At the bottom of the application where it says
"sign here". I put "Sagittarius"
g***@gmaildo.tocom
2006-03-24 12:42:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by David
Post by g***@gmaildo.tocom
There are people breeding tiny breeds (as in small animals) of pigs
and sheep as we text this.
The reverse is also true. Breeding of chickens for rapid growth
resulted in a reduction of time for growth to a certain size from
thirteen weeks to six weeks back in the fifties/sixties. Personal
experience.
True. From a neighbours experience. Every now and again, when there is
a shortage of news, the papers have a headline `Scientists in X have
developed chickens that don't grow feathers' (Last time X was Israel,
but the story has had US, Australia, etc, over the years).. That does
be the last heard of that rumor until news is short again.
--
greymaus
Just Another Grumpy Old Man
David
2006-03-24 20:56:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by g***@gmaildo.tocom
Post by David
Post by g***@gmaildo.tocom
There are people breeding tiny breeds (as in small animals) of pigs
and sheep as we text this.
The reverse is also true. Breeding of chickens for rapid growth
resulted in a reduction of time for growth to a certain size from
thirteen weeks to six weeks back in the fifties/sixties. Personal
experience.
True. From a neighbours experience. Every now and again, when there is
a shortage of news, the papers have a headline `Scientists in X have
developed chickens that don't grow feathers' (Last time X was Israel,
but the story has had US, Australia, etc, over the years).. That does
be the last heard of that rumor until news is short again.
One of the factors that we used to select which chickens would serve
as our future breeding stock was how fast they developed feathers.
Having feathers as they emerged from the egg was considered to be a
good thing. The feathers we looked for were the quills on the wings.
--
David
At the bottom of the application where it says
"sign here". I put "Sagittarius"
Tim McDaniel
2006-03-24 21:25:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by David
One of the factors that we used to select which chickens would serve
as our future breeding stock was how fast they developed feathers.
Having feathers as they emerged from the egg was considered to be a
good thing.
Why?
--
Tim McDaniel; Reply-To: ***@panix.com
David
2006-03-25 03:10:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by David
One of the factors that we used to select which chickens would serve
as our future breeding stock was how fast they developed feathers.
Having feathers as they emerged from the egg was considered to be a
good thing.
Why?
If the chicken had no feathers on the wings then they were not as far
developed as their cousins. This meant they were slower growing. By
selecting for faster growth at that stage it accellerated their later
growth. Feathering was only one of the factors involved but it was
definitely a plus for future generations.

Faster growth was desirable to reduce feeding costs while growing and
to increase turnover rate. We were able to reduce the growth period
from thirteen week to six weeks for "spatchcock" sized birds.
--
David
At the bottom of the application where it says
"sign here". I put "Sagittarius"
g***@gmaildo.tocom
2006-03-25 08:14:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by David
One of the factors that we used to select which chickens would serve
as our future breeding stock was how fast they developed feathers.
Having feathers as they emerged from the egg was considered to be a
good thing.
Why?
Feathers insulate to a certain extent, as long as they are fairly dry.
That's why people who develope featherless chickens don't succeed in
producing viable birds.
--
greymaus
Just Another Grumpy Old Man
Ray Heindl
2006-03-23 21:54:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lon
I think some of the underwater welding techniques used by the Navy
may have been refined considerably at New Mexico Tech as an
offshoot of the research in partnership with a few folks. I can't
remember the lady artist who did really kewl varicolored metal
murals with explosive lamination/welding as a result of having
been at NMIMT. Cut, weld, or simply blow shit up... all a matter
of tuning and placement.
From one of the danker recesses of what passes for my brain, I recall
hearing that the metal sandwiches that (used to?) make up US coins were
created by explosion welding. Mr. Google finds that it's true:

'The effort proved well worthwhile. Commercial operations began in
1963, then in 1965, DuPont used the explosion welding process to
produce the clad metals needed by the US Mint for new coinage. During
the next three years, the team made over 70 million pounds of dime,
quarter, and half dollar blanks. John Banker, a former DuPont employee
and currently Vice President at DMC Clad Metal, jokes, “DuPont made
lots of money making money.”'
<http://tinyurl.com/ehhf5>
--
Ray Heindl
(remove the Xs to reply)
Charles Bishop
2006-03-25 03:26:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Thomas Prufer
Post by Lon
The best welds are done by C4 or similar. Granted, I suspect even the
art form from New Mexico Tech is no longer as politically acceptable as
it was in the early 60's. Not sure if anyone has ever harnessed a nuke
for welding, unless you count that manhole cover that got welded to a
passing sputnik.
I recall a method of reforming metals that used underwater explosions. The
pressure would press the material into whatever complicated shape one needed,
and couldn't otherwise achieve. Like a press, but capable of filling undercuts
and such. They later replaced the explosive with a heavy-duty spark, which would
turn some water to steam with a similar effect. Then there's "explosive
rivets"...
What replaced this technique?
--
cahrles
Charles Wm. Dimmick
2006-03-17 02:51:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lee Ayrton
Post by Leonard Blaisdell
We used to use thermite to start the reduction of tungsten oxide to
tungsten in my least favorite job ever.
Wasn't Thermite used to weld pre-war trolley track joints? An attempt
to find a Web reference for that isn't coming easily to hand.
There are many versions of the college prank of welding the trolley
to the track using thermite. I first heard it back in 1960, and being
younger and more gullible back then thoroughly believed it, especially
since everyone who told the story to me had more-or-less the same
details: the old trolley line that used to run from Denver to Golden;
the trolley company raising the fare and some students doing the
welding as a type of protest. [Historical note: the trolley line was
in service from 1891 until July 2, 1950.]

See also:
http://www.eyetap.org/wearable/wear-hard-00/20002520.html
Jack Campin - bogus address
2006-03-15 11:43:08 UTC
Permalink
The yellow color implies a molten-metal temperature of approximately
1000 oC, evidently above that which the dark- smoke hydrocarbon fires
in the Towers could produce.
Yellow is the normal colour of a carbon flame. Strike a match sometime.
Researchers can greatly increase the power of weapons by adding materials
known as superthermites that combine nanometals such as nanoaluminum with
metal oxides such as iron oxide [...]
Son says that the chemical reactions of superthermites are faster and
therefore release greater amounts of energy more rapidly.
Finer-grained mixing (which is all you're describing) can't release any
*more* energy. That's determined by the oxidation potentials involved
in the reaction, i.e. the electronic structure of the aluminium atoms
and oxide molecules.
"Superthermites can increase the (chemical) reaction time by a thousand
times," Son says, resulting in a very rapid reactive wave.
Somehow I doubt he meant to say that.

What you're describing is a way to make thermite into something close
to a high explosive. There are already lots of high explosives so this
doesn't add anything very new.

I used to make thermite when I was a kid. Fun stuff, but a bugger to
light.

Followups to afu.

============== j-c ====== @ ====== purr . demon . co . uk ==============
Jack Campin: 11 Third St, Newtongrange EH22 4PU, Scotland | tel 0131 660 4760
<http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/jack/> for CD-ROMs and free | fax 0870 0554 975
stuff: Scottish music, food intolerance, & Mac logic fonts | mob 07800 739 557
Dogchain
2006-03-16 17:14:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jack Campin - bogus address
The yellow color implies a molten-metal temperature of approximately
1000 oC, evidently above that which the dark- smoke hydrocarbon fires
in the Towers could produce.
Yellow is the normal colour of a carbon flame. Strike a match sometime.
The color of molten metal is what we are looking at, not flame. Are you
stupid or just pretending?
Vandar
2006-03-16 17:39:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dogchain
Post by Jack Campin - bogus address
The yellow color implies a molten-metal temperature of approximately
1000 oC, evidently above that which the dark- smoke hydrocarbon fires
in the Towers could produce.
Yellow is the normal colour of a carbon flame. Strike a match sometime.
The color of molten metal is what we are looking at, not flame. Are you
stupid or just pretending?
How do you know it's metal?
Dogchain
2006-03-17 17:53:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Vandar
Post by Dogchain
Post by Jack Campin - bogus address
The yellow color implies a molten-metal temperature of approximately
1000 oC, evidently above that which the dark- smoke hydrocarbon fires
in the Towers could produce.
Yellow is the normal colour of a carbon flame. Strike a match sometime.
The color of molten metal is what we are looking at, not flame. Are you
stupid or just pretending?
How do you know it's metal?
I know you are stupid no matter if you pretend not to be or not!
Vandar
2006-03-17 17:56:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dogchain
Post by Vandar
Post by Dogchain
Post by Jack Campin - bogus address
The yellow color implies a molten-metal temperature of approximately
1000 oC, evidently above that which the dark- smoke hydrocarbon fires
in the Towers could produce.
Yellow is the normal colour of a carbon flame. Strike a match sometime.
The color of molten metal is what we are looking at, not flame. Are you
stupid or just pretending?
How do you know it's metal?
I know you are stupid no matter if you pretend not to be or not!
So you have no idea if it's metal or not, just like the so-called
"scholars". What a surprise.
Dogchain
2006-03-17 18:44:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Vandar
Post by Dogchain
Post by Vandar
Post by Dogchain
Post by Jack Campin - bogus address
The yellow color implies a molten-metal temperature of approximately
1000 oC, evidently above that which the dark- smoke hydrocarbon fires
in the Towers could produce.
Yellow is the normal colour of a carbon flame. Strike a match sometime.
The color of molten metal is what we are looking at, not flame. Are you
stupid or just pretending?
How do you know it's metal?
I know you are stupid no matter if you pretend not to be or not!
So you have no idea if it's metal or not, just like the so-called
"scholars". What a surprise.
You dispute scholars? If it isn't metal at the bottom of the WTC Complex in
the rubble what is it, mental defect. Is it plastic?
Vandar
2006-03-17 18:48:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dogchain
Post by Vandar
Post by Dogchain
Post by Vandar
Post by Dogchain
Post by Jack Campin - bogus address
The yellow color implies a molten-metal temperature of approximately
1000 oC, evidently above that which the dark- smoke hydrocarbon fires
in the Towers could produce.
Yellow is the normal colour of a carbon flame. Strike a match sometime.
The color of molten metal is what we are looking at, not flame. Are you
stupid or just pretending?
How do you know it's metal?
I know you are stupid no matter if you pretend not to be or not!
So you have no idea if it's metal or not, just like the so-called
"scholars". What a surprise.
You dispute scholars?
Not only do I dispute them, I've debated them into silence.
Post by Dogchain
If it isn't metal at the bottom of the WTC Complex in
the rubble what is it, mental defect. Is it plastic?
You're the one who bases all sorts of conclusions on it. You tell us.
Unlike you and the so-called "scholars", I'm not afraid to say I don't
know when I don't know.
Dogchain
2006-03-17 21:18:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Vandar
Post by Dogchain
Post by Vandar
Post by Dogchain
Post by Vandar
Post by Dogchain
Post by Jack Campin - bogus address
The yellow color implies a molten-metal temperature of approximately
1000 oC, evidently above that which the dark- smoke hydrocarbon fires
in the Towers could produce.
Yellow is the normal colour of a carbon flame. Strike a match sometime.
The color of molten metal is what we are looking at, not flame. Are
you stupid or just pretending?
How do you know it's metal?
I know you are stupid no matter if you pretend not to be or not!
So you have no idea if it's metal or not, just like the so-called
"scholars". What a surprise.
You dispute scholars?
Not only do I dispute them, I've debated them into silence.
You've chased them away, at best, with your demands that evidence be on
video tape.
Post by Vandar
Post by Dogchain
If it isn't metal at the bottom of the WTC Complex in the rubble what is
it, mental defect. Is it plastic?
You're the one who bases all sorts of conclusions on it. You tell us.
It's metal, defect.
Post by Vandar
Unlike you and the so-called "scholars", I'm not afraid to say I don't
know when I don't know.
If you're so sure that you don't, why question those whom do?
Vandar
2006-03-18 00:46:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dogchain
Post by Vandar
Post by Dogchain
Post by Vandar
Post by Dogchain
Post by Vandar
Post by Dogchain
Post by Jack Campin - bogus address
The yellow color implies a molten-metal temperature of approximately
1000 oC, evidently above that which the dark- smoke hydrocarbon fires
in the Towers could produce.
Yellow is the normal colour of a carbon flame. Strike a match sometime.
The color of molten metal is what we are looking at, not flame. Are
you stupid or just pretending?
How do you know it's metal?
I know you are stupid no matter if you pretend not to be or not!
So you have no idea if it's metal or not, just like the so-called
"scholars". What a surprise.
You dispute scholars?
Not only do I dispute them, I've debated them into silence.
You've chased them away, at best, with your demands that evidence be on
video tape.
It wasn't carried out here. It was an email exchange with James Fetzer,
after I criticized his group for claiming they speak "on behalf of all
Americans". In the course of our discussion, I discovered that he was
completely unaware that flight77.info even existed, so I provided the
link and told him that the demands in his "petition" have already been
litigated - the answer has already ben give - the "scholars" haven't
done their homework.
He took umbrage with that and practically dared me to rebut a list of
claims he pasted in an email to me.
I did.
Silence.
Post by Dogchain
Post by Vandar
Post by Dogchain
If it isn't metal at the bottom of the WTC Complex in the rubble what is
it, mental defect. Is it plastic?
You're the one who bases all sorts of conclusions on it. You tell us.
It's metal, defect.
You can't prove that.
Post by Dogchain
Post by Vandar
Unlike you and the so-called "scholars", I'm not afraid to say I don't
know when I don't know.
If you're so sure that you don't, why question those whom do?
Because those "whom" do, don't.
Jim Strathmeyer
2006-03-18 03:02:24 UTC
Permalink
What was that? I couldn't hear you.
--
Jim Strathmeyer
Dogchain
2006-03-20 19:09:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Vandar
Post by Dogchain
Post by Vandar
Post by Dogchain
Post by Vandar
Post by Dogchain
Post by Vandar
Post by Dogchain
Post by Jack Campin - bogus address
The yellow color implies a molten-metal temperature of
approximately
1000 oC, evidently above that which the dark- smoke hydrocarbon fires
in the Towers could produce.
Yellow is the normal colour of a carbon flame. Strike a match sometime.
The color of molten metal is what we are looking at, not flame. Are
you stupid or just pretending?
How do you know it's metal?
I know you are stupid no matter if you pretend not to be or not!
So you have no idea if it's metal or not, just like the so-called
"scholars". What a surprise.
You dispute scholars?
Not only do I dispute them, I've debated them into silence.
You've chased them away, at best, with your demands that evidence be on
video tape.
It wasn't carried out here. It was an email exchange with James Fetzer,
after I criticized his group for claiming they speak "on behalf of all
Americans". In the course of our discussion, I discovered that he was
completely unaware that flight77.info even existed, so I provided the link
and told him that the demands in his "petition" have already been
litigated - the answer has already ben give - the "scholars" haven't done
their homework.
He took umbrage with that and practically dared me to rebut a list of
claims he pasted in an email to me.
I did.
Silence.
Yep, you are very credible.
Post by Vandar
Post by Dogchain
Post by Vandar
Post by Dogchain
If it isn't metal at the bottom of the WTC Complex in the rubble what is
it, mental defect. Is it plastic?
You're the one who bases all sorts of conclusions on it. You tell us.
It's metal, defect.
You can't prove that.
Give me an example of what else could this heated mass be?
Post by Vandar
Post by Dogchain
Post by Vandar
Unlike you and the so-called "scholars", I'm not afraid to say I don't
know when I don't know.
If you're so sure that you don't, why question those whom do?
Because those "whom" do, don't.
You mean that this wasn't one of the hand picked pieces of evidence for
study while everything else was being sold to China? Shocking!
Vandar
2006-03-20 19:53:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dogchain
Post by Vandar
Post by Dogchain
Post by Vandar
Post by Dogchain
Post by Vandar
Post by Dogchain
Post by Vandar
Post by Dogchain
Post by Jack Campin - bogus address
The yellow color implies a molten-metal temperature of approximately
1000 oC, evidently above that which the dark- smoke hydrocarbon fires
in the Towers could produce.
Yellow is the normal colour of a carbon flame. Strike a match sometime.
The color of molten metal is what we are looking at, not flame. Are
you stupid or just pretending?
How do you know it's metal?
I know you are stupid no matter if you pretend not to be or not!
So you have no idea if it's metal or not, just like the so-called
"scholars". What a surprise.
You dispute scholars?
Not only do I dispute them, I've debated them into silence.
You've chased them away, at best, with your demands that evidence be on
video tape.
It wasn't carried out here. It was an email exchange with James Fetzer,
after I criticized his group for claiming they speak "on behalf of all
Americans". In the course of our discussion, I discovered that he was
completely unaware that flight77.info even existed, so I provided the link
and told him that the demands in his "petition" have already been
litigated - the answer has already ben give - the "scholars" haven't done
their homework.
He took umbrage with that and practically dared me to rebut a list of
claims he pasted in an email to me.
I did.
Silence.
Yep, you are very credible.
Since you obviously aren't aware, I should inform you that your
considering me credible or not means nothing.
Post by Dogchain
Post by Vandar
Post by Dogchain
Post by Vandar
Post by Dogchain
If it isn't metal at the bottom of the WTC Complex in the rubble what is
it, mental defect. Is it plastic?
You're the one who bases all sorts of conclusions on it. You tell us.
It's metal, defect.
You can't prove that.
Give me an example of what else could this heated mass be?
Not my job. You claim it's metal, prove it.
Post by Dogchain
Post by Vandar
Post by Dogchain
Post by Vandar
Unlike you and the so-called "scholars", I'm not afraid to say I don't
know when I don't know.
If you're so sure that you don't, why question those whom do?
Because those "whom" do, don't.
You mean that this wasn't one of the hand picked pieces of evidence for
study while everything else was being sold to China? Shocking!
I mean exactly what I said: Those who claim to know what the material is
have no idea what the material is.
Dogchain
2006-03-21 14:09:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Vandar
Post by Dogchain
Post by Vandar
Post by Dogchain
Post by Vandar
Post by Dogchain
Post by Vandar
Post by Dogchain
Post by Vandar
Post by Dogchain
Post by Jack Campin - bogus address
The yellow color implies a molten-metal temperature of approximately
1000 oC, evidently above that which the dark- smoke hydrocarbon fires
in the Towers could produce.
Yellow is the normal colour of a carbon flame. Strike a match sometime.
The color of molten metal is what we are looking at, not flame.
Are you stupid or just pretending?
How do you know it's metal?
I know you are stupid no matter if you pretend not to be or not!
So you have no idea if it's metal or not, just like the so-called
"scholars". What a surprise.
You dispute scholars?
Not only do I dispute them, I've debated them into silence.
You've chased them away, at best, with your demands that evidence be on
video tape.
It wasn't carried out here. It was an email exchange with James Fetzer,
after I criticized his group for claiming they speak "on behalf of all
Americans". In the course of our discussion, I discovered that he was
completely unaware that flight77.info even existed, so I provided the
link and told him that the demands in his "petition" have already been
litigated - the answer has already ben give - the "scholars" haven't done
their homework.
He took umbrage with that and practically dared me to rebut a list of
claims he pasted in an email to me.
I did.
Silence.
Yep, you are very credible.
Since you obviously aren't aware, I should inform you that your
considering me credible or not means nothing.
If it isn't on video tape it means nothing to you, moron.
Post by Vandar
Post by Dogchain
Post by Vandar
Post by Dogchain
Post by Vandar
Post by Dogchain
If it isn't metal at the bottom of the WTC Complex in the rubble what
is it, mental defect. Is it plastic?
You're the one who bases all sorts of conclusions on it. You tell us.
It's metal, defect.
You can't prove that.
Give me an example of what else could this heated mass be?
Not my job. You claim it's metal, prove it.
You cannot make an argument against it for good reason. There is no other
logical explanation of what this material could be.
Post by Vandar
Post by Dogchain
Post by Vandar
Post by Dogchain
Post by Vandar
Unlike you and the so-called "scholars", I'm not afraid to say I don't
know when I don't know.
If you're so sure that you don't, why question those whom do?
Because those "whom" do, don't.
You mean that this wasn't one of the hand picked pieces of evidence for
study while everything else was being sold to China? Shocking!
I mean exactly what I said: Those who claim to know what the material is
have no idea what the material is.
They do have an idea, moron.
Dogchain
2006-03-23 14:59:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dogchain
Post by Vandar
Post by Dogchain
Post by Vandar
Post by Dogchain
Post by Vandar
Post by Dogchain
Post by Vandar
Post by Dogchain
Post by Vandar
Post by Dogchain
Post by Jack Campin - bogus address
The yellow color implies a molten-metal temperature of approximately
1000 oC, evidently above that which the dark- smoke hydrocarbon fires
in the Towers could produce.
Yellow is the normal colour of a carbon flame. Strike a match
sometime.
The color of molten metal is what we are looking at, not flame.
Are you stupid or just pretending?
How do you know it's metal?
I know you are stupid no matter if you pretend not to be or not!
So you have no idea if it's metal or not, just like the so-called
"scholars". What a surprise.
You dispute scholars?
Not only do I dispute them, I've debated them into silence.
You've chased them away, at best, with your demands that evidence be on
video tape.
It wasn't carried out here. It was an email exchange with James Fetzer,
after I criticized his group for claiming they speak "on behalf of all
Americans". In the course of our discussion, I discovered that he was
completely unaware that flight77.info even existed, so I provided the
link and told him that the demands in his "petition" have already been
litigated - the answer has already ben give - the "scholars" haven't
done their homework.
He took umbrage with that and practically dared me to rebut a list of
claims he pasted in an email to me.
I did.
Silence.
Yep, you are very credible.
Since you obviously aren't aware, I should inform you that your
considering me credible or not means nothing.
If it isn't on video tape it means nothing to you, moron.
Post by Vandar
Post by Dogchain
Post by Vandar
Post by Dogchain
Post by Vandar
Post by Dogchain
If it isn't metal at the bottom of the WTC Complex in the rubble what
is it, mental defect. Is it plastic?
You're the one who bases all sorts of conclusions on it. You tell us.
It's metal, defect.
You can't prove that.
Give me an example of what else could this heated mass be?
Not my job. You claim it's metal, prove it.
You cannot make an argument against it for good reason. There is no other
logical explanation of what this material could be.
Post by Vandar
Post by Dogchain
Post by Vandar
Post by Dogchain
Post by Vandar
Unlike you and the so-called "scholars", I'm not afraid to say I don't
know when I don't know.
If you're so sure that you don't, why question those whom do?
Because those "whom" do, don't.
You mean that this wasn't one of the hand picked pieces of evidence for
study while everything else was being sold to China? Shocking!
I mean exactly what I said: Those who claim to know what the material is
have no idea what the material is.
They do have an idea, moron.
Vandar
2006-03-23 16:05:32 UTC
Permalink
Dogchain
2006-03-25 00:09:44 UTC
Permalink
"Vandar" <***@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:gHzUf.4879$***@news01.roc.ny...
Fools says he is though he isn't.

Back to the question which caused him to run for cover (his rock):

Give me an example of what else could this heated mass be?
Jim Strathmeyer
2006-03-17 19:53:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dogchain
Post by Vandar
Post by Dogchain
Post by Jack Campin - bogus address
Yellow is the normal colour of a carbon flame. Strike a match sometime.
The color of molten metal is what we are looking at, not flame. Are
you stupid or just pretending?
How do you know it's metal?
I know you are stupid no matter if you pretend not to be or not!
Right, but since you won't answer the question, in this case the
stupidity is your fault, and not ours.
--
Jim Strathmeyer
Jim Strathmeyer
2006-03-16 19:56:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dogchain
Post by Jack Campin - bogus address
Yellow is the normal colour of a carbon flame. Strike a match sometime.
The color of molten metal is what we are looking at, not flame. Are
you stupid or just pretending?
Well, apparently we're stupid, because you said that there was molten
metal in that video which you could tell because of the color, then
someone pointed out that flame can be yellow, and you still claim that
it's molten metal without providing any further reasoning, and we're
just plain too stupid to know what that reasoning is unless you tell us.
--
Jim Strathmeyer
g***@gmaildo.tocom
2006-03-16 22:27:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim Strathmeyer
Post by Dogchain
Post by Jack Campin - bogus address
Yellow is the normal colour of a carbon flame. Strike a match sometime.
The color of molten metal is what we are looking at, not flame. Are
you stupid or just pretending?
Well, apparently we're stupid, because you said that there was molten
metal in that video which you could tell because of the color, then
someone pointed out that flame can be yellow, and you still claim that
it's molten metal without providing any further reasoning, and we're
just plain too stupid to know what that reasoning is unless you tell us.
Identification of various metals by the sparks-flame caused by hitting
it with an angle-grinder was a basic part of metalworks courses.
--
greymaus
Just Another Grumpy Old Man
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